KarenYankovich, Author at Karen Yankovich

127 – How to Make Business Referrals Repeatable

This week’s episode of Good Girls Get Rich is brought to you by Uplevel Media CEO and LinkedIn expert, Karen Yankovich. In this episode, Karen shares how to make your relationship-based marketing efforts effective.

Building relationships is how you land big-ticket clients, but sometimes people aren’t ready to move forward after you first meet them. Relationship-marketing is the most effective way to stay in front of them so you’re there when they’re ready to move forward.


We want to hear your thoughts on this episode! Leave us a message on Speakpipe or email us at [email protected].

About the Episode:

Even pitched someone who wants to do business with you but it’s just not the right time for them to move forward? Things happen, and life gets in the way. The value in LinkedIn and relationship-based marketing is that you are able to genuinely stay in touch with that person, and you’ll be around when they’re ready to move forward.

Best Relationship-Marketing Methods

You might be wondering, “How do I do this?” The best place to start is on LinkedIn. After you first meet them, follow up with them occasionally. Be genuine, don’t pitch them, and ask questions about themselves. Maybe there was a program they’d been working on. Ask them how that’s going. Maybe there were some life changes happening. See how they’re doing.

Another way to stay in touch is to share their posts. By sharing their posts, you’re helping them gain more visibility. That’s always a good thing.

You can also find them a referral. Maybe the person you’re building a relationship with is a yoga instructor. If you have a friend who’s into yoga, refer them.

In everything you do, you want to provide value. Stay in touch, be genuine, provide value, and when they’re ready to move forward, you’ll be in the right position to do business with them.

Episode Spotlights:

  • Where to find everything for this week’s episode: karenyankovich.com/127
  • Introducing this episode’s topic (1:56)
  • How to develop relationships (6:46)
  • The benefit of LinkedIn Sales Navigator (7:55)
  • Find them a referral (10:28)
  • Episode recap (13:15)

Resources Mentioned in the Episode:

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Read the Transcript

Karen Yankovich 0:00
You’re listening to the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast Episode 127.

Intro 0:05
Welcome to the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast with your host, Karen Yankovich. This is where we embrace how good you are, girl. Stop being the best kept secret in town, learn how to use simple LinkedIn and social media strategies, and make the big bucks.

Karen Yankovich 0:23
Hello, I’m your host, Karen Yankovich. And this is Episode 127 of the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast and this podcast is brought to you by Uplevel Media where we teach simple relationship and heart based LinkedIn marketing that gets you on the phone consistently with people that will change your business, your life, your bank account, or ever people you can’t wait to have an opportunity to chat with. Basically we teach digital marketing with the human touch over here at Karen Yankovich world. So if you have listened to us before or if you love what you’re hearing today, we love to hear from you. So make sure that you’re Subscribe to this episode or this podcast so you don’t miss an episode. leave us a review because we love getting your reviews we love, we do our best to shout you out when you do that. So that’s kind of like Win Win, right? I get you some visibility you get, give us some visibility. We’re just kind of sharing the love here, right? So we love your reviews and your ratings on the podcast helps us help you take a screenshot of this episode, and share it with your social media. Let the world know you’re listening. And especially if you’re hearing something you love, let us know what that is so that we can do more of that in upcoming shows. Make sure you tag me when you do that so I can share it with my audience. I’m @karenyankovich. In the show notes, we have a link for Speakpipe. You can leave an audio review there we absolutely love those audio reviews. And you can get all this information at karenyankovich.com/127 which is the show notes in the blog for this episode and any of the links we talked about here today will be on that page. So you know I mentioned on the intro to this podcast every single week. That what we teach is digital marketing with the human touch. And it’s really interesting because, you know, I’ve, I do a lot of interviews. And often they asked me to tell my story. And my story really started as and when I started teaching LinkedIn, I was really not just teaching LinkedIn, I was teaching digital marketing. And I was having an agency, we were helping, I was helping customers, grow their followers and get some website traffic from Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn. But what was happening was when I would speak to the customers, and even my customers, or other, you know, prospects, and when I would say to them, well, where does most of your business come from? I’m gonna say 999 out of 1000 times they would say referrals. Can you Is that what you would say when I say where does most of your business come from referrals? Yeah, we’re doing a whole lot of other stuff. Right. So I, based on that, that’s really what made me start focusing in on LinkedIn because That told me that even today, and listen, I think all these other platforms are great. And they have a great purpose and I use them all. But at the end of the day, the high ticket clients, the ones that write the bigger checks, the one that are looking for fast wins that are really going to step up and do the work and have the great successes, you know, we’re there for them. They come to us when we talk to people, right? That’s, that’s really what happens. I mean, sometimes clients fall out of the sky. And I love when that happens. I mean, we listen, we work hard to make them know how to find us so that they fall out of the sky into our lap, right, that doesn’t even even then doesn’t happen just by magic. But at the end of the day, most of the people that we sign as long term contracts, or as higher ticket contracts as private clients are people we’re talking to, right. So you know, we’ve created a system here in my she’s linked up accelerator program where we teach people how to get repeatable referrals on LinkedIn. So we’re getting referrals but we’ve got a system that puts that we put in place that makes it repeatable. So they happen over and over, because the thing about referrals is I love them, because it means people love you. But it’s a little bit like cross your fingers marketing, right and hope somebody is going to make a referral to you this month. And I don’t know about you, but I’m not I’m not okay with that. I want to I want a system, I want a strategy. But remember, on LinkedIn, this is the higher ticket stuff. This is the higher end of your product suite. Right. So if you target correctly, you can often enroll a new client quickly, you know, maybe on that first or second call, right? So it shouldn’t if you do the things we teach you how to do in this using type accelerator program, or if you listen to this podcast enough, you’ve heard a lot of it here. Then you know how to target you know how to get on the phone with people. And and hopefully by the time you’re on the phone with them, you’ve already identified that they’re a great client for you, and they enroll, but sometimes it just doesn’t happen. Right sometimes, no matter despite your best efforts, they just don’t enroll on that. First couple calls. They’re like I just can’t do it right now. Two months into a three month, six month program or something like that, right? And I don’t want to get into you know how to overcome objections because that’s another podcast in and of itself, right? But let’s just say, you know, you just you just got as far as you’re gonna get with this particular prospect. Understand that if you’ve done your targeting, right, and if you are talking to people like that you can’t wait to get on the phone with them. chances are it’s not actually a no, it’s a Not right now. Okay, so 100% do not toss that lead. Do not toss that lead. I want you to I have a spreadsheet. I have index cards, man, it is hard for me to lose you if I think you’re gonna be a good client. I don’t I want to follow up with you. Okay, I want to follow up with you. And following up doesn’t necessarily mean picking up the phone and saying, hey, it’s Karen, we talked about my program three months ago. Are you ready? Now? That’s not what following up necessarily is. We’re going to talk today about ways that you can use link To continue to provide value to the people, you know, are good clients, but it just wasn’t the right time to enroll them. But they’re still coming your way. And you know that there’s possibility there for them. Right? Can you relate to that? Can you relate to getting on the phone with someone? And you know, it’s a great fit, right? You know, it’s somebody you love to work with, but it just didn’t happen. It just didn’t happen. Right? But this is relationship marketing. So why not keep developing that relationship? You know, these are for your 5000 to 10,000 or 50,000 $100,000 sales. And for those of you that are like, I don’t have $50,000 product packages, stick with me, because that’s what we work on. That’s the first thing we work on in the She’s LinkedUp Accelerator Program is what your high ticket package can look like. Right? So it’s worth it to continue to develop that relationship. So let’s say it’s July 1 2020, and you had a conversation with someone and it just didn’t, it just didn’t go the way you want. Maybe what you do is you put a follow up in your calendar Or whatever you use to follow up with people, I have a spreadsheet and I have index cards for August 1. So just a couple weeks later, like a month later. And you can go into LinkedIn and give them some endorsements. Just give them some endorsements, remind them who you are, remind them that you’re alive, right? Remind them, like just give them some endorsements on some of their skills on LinkedIn. Chances are, they’re going to reply back to you. And thank you. And that’s a conversation starter, where you can say, Hey, how’s it going over there? Last time we talked, this was happening, you know, how’s that going for you? How’s that coaching program that you’re halfway through, you know, you’re getting the results you want. Don’t pitch them genuinely be curious about how things are going for them. make notes on your note card or on your spreadsheet or wherever you take notes, right? make notes, because this is part of the sales follow up, right? But all you’re doing is endorsing them, right? You can do that. And then maybe so you have a little bit of a conversation, maybe they don’t even respond and that’s okay too. But what I would also do and this is where if you guys haven’t listened to the salesman navigator episodes yet. We’ll link to them in the show notes. There’s part one and part two. I’m a huge LinkedIn Sales Navigator fan. It’s an $80 month program. But let me tell you, if you’re talking about five and $10,000, enrollments here, right, so you can spend $80 a month, okay, that’s a mindset thing. And that’s another thing we work on in our program is we work a lot on mindset because I want your mindsets spot on. So let’s just say if you’re using Sales Navigator, you can save them in Sales Navigator, but they don’t know that you’ve saved them right. But what happens when you save them in Sales Navigator is Sales Navigator will notify you if they post anything. Okay, so now if there are people that you’ve saved, so now what you can do, let’s just say for you know, either Sales Navigator is going to auto notify you or you’re going to make another follow up on your calendar for September 1. And you’re going to make sure if you haven’t already, if Sales Navigator hasn’t already done this for you, right, like I want this to be leveraged as much as you can. So well Sales Navigator do the work and say, Hey, Mary is ready for Mary posted this really cool article today. But if not go in a couple weeks later and look to see if Mary’s posted anything if your prospect has posted anything and engage on that post, if you can share the post with your point of view, oh my gosh, I met Mary a couple months ago at an event we had the opportunity to have a really nice long chat. And I really got to know a lot about her and her business and I love the work she’s doing around this. Check it out. Read this. Mary’s gonna love you for doing this right now again, you’re not asking her to buy. You’re not pitching her again. You’re just building the relationship. Right? So now you’re sharing how with your audience you’re still providing value to Mary right? So let’s say and by the way, this is so much better than sending them a bogus I saw this article and thought of you, which is what a lot of people do. I’m sorry, but you picked one article. You sent it to 20 people I know what they know it. Nobody wants that stuff. personalize this. Okay, this is a 2010 $20,000 lead here view, notice how it goes up every time I talk, this is a big fat lead, right? Personalize it, you know, don’t be lazy. Okay, this isn’t taking a ton of your time these are this is how you get the big clients pay attention. It’s like, sound like I’m yelling at my kids here. Another way that you can do this. Now, let’s say it’s September 1, and they’re still going through their coaching program or whatever, right or the summer’s over and they wanted to get through the summer cuz they’re homeschooling their kids or whatever. The next thing you can do is when again, they’re coming up on your calendar or they’re coming up in your index card file. Think about if there’s somebody you can send them as a referral. Again, depending on how the past couple months went, if they’re ghosting you from these other things, you might want to lighten up a little bit here because maybe they weren’t as excited about you as you were about them. Right. But if you are genuinely building relationships with them and endorsing them and sharing their stuff, chances are if you did your targeting right, they’re engaging in this they’re so happy you’re doing this for them. Right. So They’re doing that behind a referral, find a referral to give them, okay, think about who you know, that might need a health coach or money mindset coach or whatever your ideal person that you want to bring to you does, right? And think about who that is and just sit maybe it’s, maybe it’s a podcast You are a guest on. And you can say, you know what I spoke to someone a couple months ago, that might be a great guest for you. Maybe you could make an intro to them to a podcast, you’ve been a guest on right and get him to guest on a podcast, providing more value. Right? Now you’re continuing to just provide value to these people. This is you see where I’m going with this. Right? You see where I’m going with this. Another thing you can do is maybe create a post that let’s just say when you were talking to this person on the phone, you made a note that they were a big New York Yankees fan, whatever. And let’s say the world is back to playing baseball again. And something happened right. Maybe you or maybe you can I’m not I mean, I don’t want this to be too far off stream. But if there’s something that happens that that is a LinkedIn where the posts of the Yankees is probably not a good example, but we’ll use it anyway, you can share it and say, you know, hey, at Mary, I thought of you when I saw this, you know, the Yankees are completely shifting their back office. And it makes it’s so in line with what we talked about. And it’s your favorite team, right? I wanted to make sure you saw this, again, you’re not doing bogus, I sent this to 20 people things, create a post that is relevant to your LinkedIn audience, but also is something that will be something that they mentioned in that conversation that you had with them now several months ago, right? So you can just create a post of your own and tag them in that post. Do you see how valuable this could be for somebody that, again, I don’t want you to have to talk to 2030 new people every week. I want you to have a pipeline of these people as time goes on. Okay, and that happens when you don’t just give up on them when they say no, but that’s on you. It’s on you to continue to develop this relationship. And you need to do it in a way that that doesn’t make them feel like you’re being pushy and you’re shoving your products and services down their throat. Right? Does that make sense? So let’s recap a little bit here. relationship marketing, how can you continue to develop a relationship with someone who just for whatever reason, didn’t didn’t enroll in your program, product service, whatever, when you thought it was time for them to do that. First thing you can do is endorse them. I call that like sprinkling fairy dust on my network. I just endorsed them. It just reminds them who you are, it’s providing value. And people that tends to it tends to be a convert, great conversation starter. If you’re using Sales Navigator, save them in Sales Navigator so that you can be notified if and when they post. If you’re not using Sales Navigator, you have to do this manually. But make sure that when they post not every single time because you don’t want to feel like a stalker. Right. But on occasion, if it’s something relevant, engage on that post, share that post comment with your point of view on that post, make it relevant. Don’t be lazy, okay be dive in and really spend some time on this. Another thing you can do is look for a referral that you can send them, right, what kinds of clients are they good to they looking for somebody you can send their way, what kind of maybe they would maybe there’s a podcast that you’re interviewed on that they might be a good guest for. Maybe there’s an event you’re going to that you’d like to invite them to write, like, think about something really personalized that you can do, purely to just support them. And you know, tag them in a post, make sure it’s relevant. Please don’t tag people Eero. I hate it drives me crazy when I get tagged in posts that really have no relevance to me. I love you guys. And I love to see what you’re doing. But if everybody started tagging me a post every time they in a post everything that comes with a new blog post, I’ve never be able to get any work done right. So, so be be sure that when you’re tagging them in a post, that’s something that’s really relevant to them, but it’s about continuing to develop the relationship and I think And hopefully at this point, you’re starting to see where I’m going with this. You know, you’ve heard this from me before, the best and most profitable strategy on LinkedIn starts with giving. Not with taking, not with asking, not with begging, not with hunting, with giving. And when you give people things, you’re staying top of mind. You’re just being generous, you’re providing value. Remember, these are high ticket sales we’re talking about here. So it should be well worth your time to spend, you know, five or 10 minutes every month or so, to just remind these people that this particular prospect that you know that you’re around by doing it in a way that’s really really valuable to them. You know, I interviewed Brian Fanzo a couple months back, we’ll link to it in the show notes. And Brian talked about the long game he has on LinkedIn. And he talked about the fact that like if he wants to be a keynote at ABC companies 2022 can you know, annual meeting, he starts two years in advance. He He starts by sharing and sharing content about that company for like two months. And then after he shares it, then he starts connecting with the people and says, I haven’t talked about you guys for months. And when they look at their his network, they see he has been right. providing value. providing value is the long game. Brian gets some big fat keynotes as a result of this big fat keynotes. Okay, so this is, you know, it’s not if you’re talking to somebody and Now’s not the time, do not ditch it. Okay, use LinkedIn, to continue to provide value to continue to follow up on the people that for whatever reason, it wasn’t the time for them, to for you guys to be working together. So I hope that that was helpful to you. I would love to I’d love to hear what you think about this. Share this on social media. Tell me which one of these things you’re going to do today. Tell me which, you know, tell me if there’s something else that I didn’t mention that you do on LinkedIn. I’d love to hear about that. Share this episode on LinkedIn, share it on your social media. Tell me what you’re you know what it is that you do that maybe something additional to what I have just lots more ways than this. And if you want to know a little bit more about the process that I talked about those repeatable referrals that we teach, join our LinkedIn Masterclass on demand at karenyankovich.com/masterclass. And you can watch it whenever it’s good for you and then I am always available for your questions around the masterclass or anything else you can message me on LinkedIn, DM me anywhere, and let’s get some big fat clients this year. What do you say? Listen, I know I’m here to support you. I love your support. I do this podcast to support you. I have the free Masterclass that supports you. I would love for you to help me if you would share this podcast and let your audience know that you’re listening that’s really helpful to me. Take a quick screenshot of the episode on your phone and share it on social tag me so I know that you did so that I can thank you and share it with my audience. I definitely think that even though The start of 2020 has been a little crazy. I think that there’s plenty of time for us to finish up 2020 with an most amazing year, I’m here to support you to do that. I want this to be simple. Let’s create this simple Empire together. I will see you back here again next week for another episode of the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast.

126 – Building Your Online Business with Erica Duran

This week’s episode of Good Girls Get Rich is brought to you by Uplevel Media CEO and LinkedIn expert, Karen Yankovich. In this episode, Erica Duran shares with Karen how to grow your online business.

Erica Duran is an international online business strategist and freedom lifestyle mentor. She’s the creator of the Get Paid for Your Presence Method. She’s also the host of The Erica Duran Show.


We want to hear your thoughts on this episode! Leave us a message on Speakpipe or email us at [email protected].

About the Episode:

In the process of growing an online business, it’s easy to get caught up in overcomplicating what needs to be done. Budding entrepreneurs often get caught up in setting up an amazing website, creating a 15-message email series, purchasing business cards… need I go on?

While all these things are good, they’re not doing you the service of gaining business. Erica Duran shares with us in this episode how to effectively start gaining income in your online business.

Hosting Events

When starting and growing an online business, hosting events isn’t at the top of most entrepreneurs’ lists. In reality, it’s one of the most important things you can do to skyrocket your online company.

By hosting events, you’re growing awareness. And awareness really makes a difference. Hosting events also allows you to dive deeper with people and build trust.

Unsure how to lead an event? Wondering if the event should be online or in person? Find the answers to these questions and more by listing to this episode

Episode Spotlights:

  • Where to find everything for this week’s episode: karenyankovich.com/126
  • Introducing this episode’s guest, Erica Duran (2:04)
  • Erica’s pivot (4:30)
  • How to start and grow income in a digital business (6:33)
  • Put events on your calendar (10:19)
  • Give your audience the “how” (12:45)
  • Attracting the high-paying clients (15:56)
  • Attracting sponsors (18:27)
  • How to learn more about Erica (22:51)

Resources Mentioned in the Episode:

Help Us Spread the Word!

It would be awesome if you shared the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast with your fellow entrepreneurs on twitter. Click here to tweet some love!

If this episode has taught you just one thing, I would love if you could head on over to Apple Podcasts and SUBSCRIBE TO THE SHOW! And if you’re moved to, kindly leave us a rating and review. Maybe you’ll get a shout out on the show!

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Read the Transcript

Karen Yankovich 0:00
You’re listening to the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast Episode 126.

Intro 0:06
Welcome to the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast with your host, Karen Yankovich. This is where we embrace how good you are, girl. Stop being the best kept secret in town, learn how to use simple LinkedIn and social media strategies, and make the big bucks.

Karen Yankovich 0:23
Hi, I’m your host, Karen Yankovich. And we’re on Episode 126 of the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast and this podcast is brought to you by Uplevel Media where we teach simple relationship and heart-based LinkedIn marketing to women that gets you on the phone consistently with people that you can’t wait to get on the phone with people that can change your business, your life and your bank account or ever teach digital marketing with the human touch actually talking to people. Today’s episode with Erica Duran is actually an example of that. Erica and I will talk a little bit at the end of how We met. And basically, I use the same processes. I teach in my programs to meet Erica. And she interviewed me for her podcast, I interviewed her for my podcast. And we both had an opportunity to get in front of each other’s audiences. And that, my friends, is where there’s profit in this right? Because hopefully, there’s going to be people in her audience that listen to this. And that, like what I’m doing and that eventually want to work with me. Not today, right? Not tomorrow. It’s about building relationships. And Erica talks a lot about that talks a lot about how she teaches a process to use events, and sponsorships to build relationships. So you’re gonna get some really interesting things that I don’t think we’ve ever talked about on this show before so I’m really excited for you to hear what Eric has gotten for in store for us today. And you know, as you’re listening, if you love what you hear, we want you to take a quick screenshot of this episode, share it on your social media, let the world know that you’re listening tag me tag Erica, all of the links are in the show notes or at karenyankovich.com/126. And you can check that out. So without further ado, here’s Erica. Okay, we have Erica Duran here with us today. Erica is an international online business strategist, and mentor for entrepreneurs and influencers on the rise who are meant to impact millions earn millions and never settle my gosh, I love that. She provides hands on implementation based coaching and to help entrepreneurs simplify, strategize, sell and scale online. She, she is the creator of the Paid for Your Presence Method and the Evolved Entrepreneur Program. She’s the host of The Erica Duran Show and as a full time digital nomad who often lives at the resorts that sponsor her content. Erica, that’s so cool that I already have five questions I want to ask you, just thanks for being with us today.

Erica Duran 2:48
Thank you. I love the name of your podcast. I was like, Oh my gosh, I want to steal that.

Karen Yankovich 2:52
Yeah, well, you can’t, but they certainly can tell everybody about it. Um, but you know, at the end of the day, it’s the same message. Right, when you say #NeverSettle. That’s exactly what I teach. Good Girls Get Rich means find what you’re good at, build your business and your life around that. And that’s where the abundance comes in. Right? And when you start to do things that you’re not so good at, or you’re not loving, or you’re or you’re settling in your life or in your business, then you’re not reaching for the abundance and the stars that you’re meant for. Because you’re settling. So I love that so much. So okay, that was your official bios, tell us tell us the real deal about like, What got you started? And you know, let’s start with that. Where did you get started with this? supporting entrepreneurs in their businesses?

Erica Duran 3:40
Yeah, well, way back in the day, I was a hotel executive and an executive with Disney for a long time. About 15 years in corporate America, a lot of marketing a lot of operations. And then I just got sick of the politics and the backstabbing and things like that. Not so much at Disney but at some of the hotels. And just started moonlighting and getting licenses I didn’t know how to there really wasn’t online entrepreneurship back then or or, like thought leader kind of thing back then it was more. I got an investment license and a real estate license and insurance license like I’ve been getting all the licenses because those were like freedom based jobs to me.

Karen Yankovich 4:21

Erica Duran 4:22
Yeah. Back in the day back in 2004.

Karen Yankovich 4:27
Right, right. So okay, so how did you then make the switch or the pivot to from working at a hotel chain to helping people understand how to do things like you know, like, like building your like the paid for your presence with the evolved entrepreneur? How did you start to develop programs to help these people what got that you started on that path?

Erica Duran 4:49
Yeah, so I, after all those licensing jobs, I landed on being a certified professional organizer for quite a while and I really took to online marketing because As I was a massive introvert you know about all these videos and podcasts that it ended the day I’m an introvert and didn’t like…

Karen Yankovich 5:08
So common by the way.

Erica Duran 5:09

Karen Yankovich 5:09
So common. We hide behind the microphone.

Erica Duran 5:15
So I started I really took up online marketing. I was all over that when it came out because it was more of an introvert thing. And all the other professional organizers in my town in area and online even started asking me for help on how to get clients online. Because the internet marketing was very new back then social media was just starting. And so everyone is asking me how to get clients online. So I just turned around and taught them what I was doing. And then the evolved entrepreneur program. We’re on evolved entrepreneur 4.0 now, because it keeps evolving all the time.

Karen Yankovich 5:56
Oh my gosh, of course. Well, so you know, many people listening, you know, we’re recording this at Spring of 2020. And many people I find are reevaluating what’s on the other side of this pandemic world we’re living in now. And maybe it was on the other side is exactly what was on the on the front side of it. But I think there’s a lot of people thinking what if I don’t go back to my corporate career or many people are laid off and can’t go back to their corporate careers? Right so so how and they don’t necessarily have a year right to build up a new business. So what’s the fastest way to get started and to grow and scale some income in business in a digital online business?

Erica Duran 6:42
Yeah, well, the fastest way is what I built my paid for your presence method around and I’ll just go into that just yeah, Heidi. Yeah, yeah, it actually it’s funny you mentioned the the Coronavirus, spring 2020 situation because I was ill with it. And that’s how I put this whole thing together. I just had so much time for reflection myself. And so I looked back in and was like, What over the past 20 years? What have I done that has survived the housing crisis 911 ups and downs in the market like what have I always done as far as marketing online and leveraging on online and offline, honestly, and what I landed on after all that reflection was events, high high value events. So when I say paid for your presence, some people are like, what are you a diva? You just want to get paid for your presence? And I’m like, no, it’s going back full circle, like you said, going back to being super present and human, with your prospects with your clients with with you know, absolutely everyone in your life, your social media followers, getting into the DMS with them, being present, all around and high, high value really an online entrepreneur expert? Yes. But I have just ripped out so much tech and automation out of my business and my clients businesses, because that’s what was really holding them back is they’re like, I need a website and I need this big list and I need a funnel, I need a 17 part email series, and then I need videos, and then I need to edit them. And then I was like, all this tech stuff that does doesn’t need to be there. If they threw all that out and just did outreach on LinkedIn. And we’re super present with those people. Like we just talked about. When I interviewed you on my job.

Karen Yankovich 8:35
I was just saying to the people listening to this might not have heard that conversation. Yeah, we’ll link to it in the show notes. But we’re actually doing back to back interviews here. Erica just interviewed me for her podcast. So we’ll link to that in the show notes. And yeah, so now she’s coming on here. But yeah, because I have people listening to this know that that’s exactly what I talked about being present, meeting people, building relationships. And you know, at the end of the day, everybody says to me, I get Most of my business from referrals, yet, they’re creating 17 step email sequences and video sequences and, you know, doing all the things you just listed that you just stripped out of your business. So really interesting that you’re saying that because i don’t think i think that there’s a place for all of that I’m not knocking people for doing that. But when you get caught up and all of that, I completely agree that that’s where I mean there’s no money and sitting on your computer and writing a 17 part email sequence doesn’t pay your mortgage.

Erica Duran 9:29
It takes all the human connection out of it. And that’s how you get a client is the know, like, and trust human connection. So and the it takes the excuses and the procrastination off of my clients. That’s what I was going for is like they’re saying they need all these things and they need a logo, they need business cards, and I’m like, you’re just procrastinating out of fear. You’re not. You don’t need any of this stuff. You can have a LinkedIn profile and host an event every four to six weeks and leverage your time. Because all you ever do is invite people to this event, which is also like a little bit of a softer sell on LinkedIn, like we talked about earlier on my podcast going for the kill or having a softer, you know, an invite is a lot softer invite to a free workshop is not by my stuff.

Karen Yankovich 10:18
So what… Okay, that’s interesting. So you’re saying that the fastest way to teach people the fastest way to grow and scale your business is to is to put events on their calendar? Is that what you’re saying?

Erica Duran 10:27

Karen Yankovich 10:27
Are they inperson events or online and offline?

Erica Duran 10:30
I’m writing offline. I mean, of course, you’re gonna get better results from the offline but it online COVID world we might be doing online for a bit here. And and I think that especially just to go back to to what we were talking about earlier to the automation piece and the over automation kind of thing. It’s not going to fly in post COVID because people are already anxious.

Karen Yankovich 10:56
Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. You know, we just, you know, I have a LinkedIn digital program and we are incorporating a ton of more personalized support in that program. And you know, somebody said to me, Well, don’t you have an automated email that goes out to people? So of course I do. But I want them to get a personal email also, because I think that that few minutes it takes to send the personal email is and you know, listen, the personal email is going to be the same for everybody with a little bit of tweaking to personalize it to what their goal for taking the program is. So it doesn’t take that long. But that extra little step i think is makes a difference. And I agree with you, we’re what we’re, you know, I think what we’re seeing, at least what I seen is that people are like, they’re realizing that they were spending a lot of time on the hamster wheel. And now that they’re not on the hamster wheel and they’re not driving all over the place and flying all over the place. And, you know, I even find the same thing. I love speaking I love being in front of a room with a microphone, and I’ve traveled all over the world to do it. Um, but I’m not reevaluating even that, you know, I mean, yeah, if you want to pay me to be in front of your audience, I’m happy to go wherever you want. But in many cases, I was doing it like, you know, kind of selling from the stage and things like that. And honestly, you don’t need to do that anymore. I’d rather go as an attendee and just enjoy their presence or maybe, you know, not, I don’t know, I feel like we there’s so much we can do without spending like a ton of time to do it. And we can split it because because we’re doing all this stuff that goes with that, instead of building relationships. And then we’re not following up with people that we’ve done all this work to do to me, because we’re busy on the next one, right? So, um, I think that diving deeper with people is 100% my message and I love hearing that it’s yours, too.

Erica Duran 12:45
Yeah. And the other piece of video, you’ve probably heard it because you’ve been around online and stuff, but a lot of the teachers online say, Tell them the what and the why and save that how until they buy so you go to These webinars and everything you don’t really learn anything except all about the person and and selling their their program. And so I’m flipping this to in these in these events you are going to tell them to how like because there’s always if you’re a true expert you’re not going to give away everything in an hour webinar whatever you’re not gonna give it all away so how and have a have a quick win right away Get them over right away from your event and then that full circle builds know like and trust but I just never liked that. You know give them the the what and the why and don’t give them the how until they buy something from you. That was just never said…

Karen Yankovich 13:44
I okay, so I want I have some questions about that because I agree with you. But it is a tricky thing. Because what you don’t also don’t want though, I agree with you. I mean, if anybody has taken in my webinars and all that I do a lot of teaching, but the challenge with that is often When people come back to me and say, okay, as soon as I finish all the things you just taught me on the webinar, I’ll come back to you. But then they know because it’s a month later or two months later, and they’re still doing all the things I taught them on the free workshop, right? Because they don’t always implement right away. So. So you really have to figure out the balance of really giving them the how, but not giving them so much that they don’t need you. Right? Because at the end of the day, if especially if we’re speaking and not charging for being in front of the stage, or being in the front of the room, you know, we have to figure out what the monetization of that is. Right. So I agree with you completely, that there’s got to be how, but I also think we have to be really careful that we’re not giving so much now, it’s not about giving it away. I mean, I do a podcast every week, between my podcast and my facebook group. Like there’s so much information here, right? I teach a ton of stuff. But if they’re still implementing from all of that and never, never invest in anything, and I can’t continue to do all that stuff because something’s got to be paying the bills too. Right,

Erica Duran 15:00
right and i think that to fix that is to give them just the tiniest, quick wins with simple homework steps that they can do and so that they get a quick one right away and then they implement something with you during the workshop. So in my five day workshop, there’s a tiny little piece of homework that they do. But by the end of the workshop, they have a complete marketing plan, but it’s a tiny little piece. The other thing is to pull something out of your bigger program. Like if if I use myself for example, and no evolved entrepreneur program, there’s like 10, you know, modules that dive deep into everything online business, but I pulled one piece of it out the event paid for your presence piece, and I teach that from A to Z, but in the paid program, we go deep on, you know, 20 other things.

Karen Yankovich 15:53
Yeah, so I love that. I love that. So okay, so when you do these live events, are they what kind of clients are they Attracting because I also think that one of the mistakes I see people make is they’re always going for, I need a program, I need a membership program, I need all this, and I love all of that. But those are the lower ticket things. And that keeps you spinning and it takes, you have to spend a lot of time building, I think building influence to have an audience big enough to really be successful with a lower ticket thing. And that’s why I love LinkedIn, because you can go straight for the higher paying opportunities. So when you’re doing these events, how does where does that fall on that scale? Like how do you attract the higher paying opportunities so that you have the money to pay people to help you when you’re starting to do things like creating programs and creating, you know, the because it costs more money to create the lower ticket things that it does degrade higher ticket things? I think,

Erica Duran 16:47
yeah, it’s actually easier to because the high end things are a lot of one to one attention and that doesn’t cost it doesn’t cost any time to create. So attracting the high paying clients to it. Anytime you have an S, I was more talking about online but but I did plenty of in person events where you know, Las Vegas like that you do just by having I’m probably going to answer the question in a roundabout way. But just by hosting the event like I had this huge mastermind in Las Vegas a few years ago live. And just because I hosted it, it kind of positioned me more in the marketplace. As an expert or you know, a business coach, that’s legit, because I was able to host something like that. So that’s one way it’s, it’s a positioning piece in the market to even be able to pull an event off, but the people that are looking for more attention and the actual answer and don’t want to get buried in a bunch of pre recorded video and PDFs, they just want to work with the expert. It may be in a small group that an event or one to one, they those, those are the higher paying clients. So if you’re offering customization and help with implementation and the attention and the presence that you give to them at an event and the the experience that you give to them at an event is really going to attract those higher end clients that are not wanting just a PDF answer for or a free course to, to solve their problem.

Karen Yankovich 18:24
Right. Right. Awesome. Awesome. So, you know, you talk also about attracting sponsors, right? cache resorts, sponsors, merchandise sponsors, to your content. And you also talked about, you know, even in your bio, you talked about the fact that you you know, you’re a digital nomad that often lives at the resorts that sponsor your content. So tell us a little bit about sponsors, because a lot of people that listen to the show, definitely would want to hear about that.

Erica Duran 18:52
Yes, so oftentimes, it’s a cash. It could be a cash sponsor, well, we’ll just do a little kind of like a radio commercial. for them and we’ll stick it in the podcast in it depending on how many times the commercial plays they pay a set amount of money. The thing with that is that the podcast lives forever and and they’re going to keep getting exposure from that even though they paid you know, once or twice the resort sponsors was I practically lived at the resorts for probably like three or four years non stop for a while because we would build the relationship with them on social media and then we would pitch them a sponsorship and so I didn’t get any money for that but I got to you know, basically room and board at the resort, which also gave them a bunch of exposure on social media. So it was a great win win that I got to you know, live at these fancy resorts and they got a bunch of social media exposure. And and then just the clout of me partnering with a large hotel also help position Me and my business. So it was like a win win win win win.

Karen Yankovich 20:04
So how do you get so how would one get started down that road? That’s pretty cool.

Erica Duran 20:08
Yeah, well, I was a little lucky I, you know, because I was a hotel executive, I knew how to speak with them and talk to them and hit their pain points. So I teach that to my clients now to is, you know, the all the hotel lingo and how to approach hotels, because I used to be on the other side of that. And so that was a little bit of help. But I promise you, you do not need any hotel experience or hotel executive experience. You it’s all about what you do. Karen building relationships on LinkedIn and Twitter. That’s exactly how I got my first few sponsors was the very first one was a Hilton waikoloa on the Big Island in Hawaii. And the whole first year of my first podcast, they sponsored it, and they actually reached out to me on twitter of all things so you don’t know who’s watching.

Karen Yankovich 20:58
Yeah. So do you Teach that in your programs how to do that?

Erica Duran 21:02
I do. So you see that’s one little that’s one module that we go way deeper on the other side of you know, the free workshop is great you learn the paid for your presence method. But then when you go in the evolved entrepreneur, there’s all these other things like podcast sponsorship and SEO and all these other kind of things.

Karen Yankovich 21:20
Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. Really cool. So, Oh, my gosh, I could I could ask you a million questions for this because I think that there’s so many people that, you know, that really, that really will resonate with this. Because I what I love about what you do is you’re taking like, one thing and you’re helping them really build it out, you know, and maybe that’s getting sponsors for it or things like that versus having 50 different things and having all this different stuff going on, right?

Erica Duran 21:47
Hey, oh, wait, we didn’t talk about that. The live events you can totally get your food, alcohol cakes, sponsored music, all that stuff sponsored for your for your event,

Karen Yankovich 21:59
And you teach how to do that in your programs because that people would be totally interested in that. Right?

Erica Duran 22:04
Yeah, yeah.

Karen Yankovich 22:06
But what about like podcasts? Like lots of my, lots of my listeners have their own podcast? Do you? You know, can you think do you talk about how to get sponsors even for your podcast?

Erica Duran 22:16
Yeah, that’s exactly. I have a podcast profit plan. program. And that’s exactly what we do. Yeah, it’s it or YouTube. It works for YouTube or Instagram feeds, anything like that. But I started with the podcast. So that’s where it was from, but yeah, totally. And they and again that too, even though I knew some lingo and all from being in the business events. You can totally get your live event food beverage, goodie bags sponsored.

Karen Yankovich 22:47
I love that.

Erica Duran 22:48
You don’t have that business expense and…

Karen Yankovich 22:50
yeah, so how can people learn more about all of the services you have and all of the things that you do? Because I think that a lot of people listening to this are going to Want to know more? Like, tell us about your five day live event do a five day virtual live event, right?

Erica Duran 23:06
Yeah, it’s a live event I hosted my Facebook group which is a free mastermind group if anyone wants to do do that it’s called New World Mastermind and it’s a five day live event where I teach the paid for your presence method Don’t hold back from A to Z you’ll learn this whole method of using events to online and offline events to leverage your business and sell one to many instead instead of you know so many console calls we don’t want to be event dependent but we definitely I remember the days of having 1020 console calls a week and now you know you have have an event and and you’re you’re selling one to you selling too many instead of one at a time. And they just over the five days they get to know you so well. We talked about in sales and marketing all the time that you need several touch points. People need to see you six to 15 times whatever the number is now because people are distracted, you know, by hosting a multi day event, even if it’s online, those people are going to really know like and trust you by the end of it. And if they don’t, they’ll get off.

Karen Yankovich 24:15
Right, right, right. Right. Right. Cool. So we’ll put links to that in the show notes for this. And tell us a little bit about your podcast.

Erica Duran 24:23
Yeah, yeah. Well, I have awesome guests like Karen on my podcast. We actually filmed the podcast live in that same Facebook group, and then it becomes a podcast. But it’s all things entrepreneur, online entrepreneur and I do stick some minimalist stuff in because I’m a hardcore minimalist. Stick some travel stuff in there, but it’s it’s mostly about online business mindset marketing, stuff like that.

Karen Yankovich 24:49
Cool. Cool. What’s the name of it?

Erica Duran 24:51
It’s The Erica Duran Show.

Karen Yankovich 24:53
Cool. All right, cool. Erica, thank you so much for being here today. What else do you want people to know about you? Where else can they find you?

Erica Duran 25:00
Yeah, I’m on all this social media, I’m probably most active on Instagram and LinkedIn, I’d love for anyone to connect with me on LinkedIn I when I was with COVID, I also just redid my whole LinkedIn got rid of everyone and started really organically building it back up again, my connections with real solid connections instead of just everyone wanting to connect with me and sell me insurance and stuff like that. So I’ve been really organically growing that again, and I’d love to connect there.

Karen Yankovich 25:31
Well, and that’s how we met. I mean, actually, we should talk about that. That’s how we met we basically Eric, I don’t remember who sent who the connection requests, but we connected and then I always, you know, follow up with people really not knowing why but I looked at Erica’s profile, I think you connected with me. Yeah. And then I looked at your profile, and I was like, Wow, she’s doing some cool stuff. And I think we speak to a similar audience. So I was like, you know, I’d love to hear more about you. You know, like, I feel like if you initiate the connection request, I can go straight for that, let’s jump on a call, right? Like I’m not initiating it. So I did, and we just got on this short call. And we’re like, wow, there’s a lot we can do together. And that got me on in front of her audience on her podcast. Now she’s on my podcast in front of my audience. And that is so much more, I believe that that will turn out to be so much more profitable for both of us. Then if she had reached out to me and said, you know, join my, you know, come on my five day anything, even though it could be the best five days I ever spend, right? But if you go straight for that, you’re not you’re missing this kind of opportunity. Because people immediately shut down when they feel like they’re being pitched on that first message. Even though they know it’s business, right? I know, you connect with me because they’re, you know, there’s obviously you’re not going to connect with me if you don’t think there’s an opportunity for your business there. Right. So I know that when you send the connection request, but at the same time, if you hit me right with the pitch, I’m not going to be so quick to respond. Versus, you know, it looks like she’s had some pretty cool things. I want to check her out, you know,

Erica Duran 26:59
yeah, we say that thing in my in my program we never pitch on Aloha so we never pitch on Hello.

Karen Yankovich 27:05
Oh, there you go. I love that never pitch on Aloha. That’s something a tweetable Alright guys, thank you so much Erica for being here. This was really cool. I think people got a lot of good stuff out of this. And I look forward to I’m gonna join your group and I want to, you know, look forward to learning more about you and what you’re doing and thanks for thanks for being here today.

Erica Duran 27:27
Yeah, I’m so grateful that you accepted my cold LinkedIn request and that now we have a great relationship.

Karen Yankovich 27:35
Exactly. Which is exactly how this works. It’s just like, putting my money where my mouth is. You guys see how this works? You have fun this could be you meet cool people not and you can ignore the people that don’t seem like cool people. You just ignore them. Don’t worry about that. block them. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right, Erica, I’m gonna let you go do your thing. It was fun to hang out with you today and everybody definitely check out Erica’s Facebook group. Thanks so much for being here today.

Erica Duran 27:59
Thank you. Bye.

Karen Yankovich 28:02
This was such a fun episode to record because I didn’t really know Erica that well. So it was really fun to get to know her as I was introducing her to you. And I really love her energy. I love the work that she’s doing. And I hope that you do also I definitely am joining her facebook group. I want to learn more about the way she books herself in hotel rooms and get food and beverages copter at her events, all really interesting stuff to me. So hopefully that was to you too. If you want to know more about the process that I use to meet Erica and to bring this whole relationship together. You can take the next step at karenyankovich.com/masterclass. That’s where we’ve got an on demand workshop for you which teaches you step by step. The process that I teach to do this, you can check that out. It is my gift to you karenyankovich.com/masterclass. So check that out if you have any questions. You know how to find me I’m @karenyankovich anyway. Just DM me, and I’m happy to get back to you. And don’t forget to share this with your audience that you listened to the show if you loved it, and I’ll see you back here again next week for another episode of the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast.

125 – Accumulating LinkedIn Recommendations

This week’s episode of Good Girls Get Rich is brought to you by Uplevel Media CEO and LinkedIn expert, Karen Yankovich. In this episode, Karen shares how to accumulate LinkedIn Recommendations.

LinkedIn Recommendations show the world who you are and why they can trust you. The more Recommendations you have, the better. Karen shares how to accumulate Recommendations.


We want to hear your thoughts on this episode! Leave us a message on Speakpipe or email us at [email protected].

About the Episode:

Most likely, you already have testimonials on your website. Testimonials are an important tool to show others that they can trust you and your business, but what if there were an even more effective way to utilize those testimonials? Enter LinkedIn Recommendations.

When reading testimonials on a website, there’s no way to know if those testimonials are genuine or if they came from that person’s family and friends. LinkedIn Recommendations, however, are written by LinkedIn users, so you know who is writing the Recommendation. Another benefit is that once someone reads a Recommendation, they can then click through to the profile of the person who left the Recommendation and ask additional questions about the person they’re looking to work with.

How to Accumulate LinkedIn Recommendations

You might be wondering, “How do I get Recommendations?” The most effective way is to give genuine Recommendations strategically. Think about who it is that might write a Recommendation for you if you write a Recommendation for them.

Another way to get Recommendations is to ask for them. If someone is complementing your work, try asking, “Would you mind popping that in a LinkedIn Recommendation?” More often than not, they’ll do it. It’s also okay to cold ask.

Start giving LinkedIn Recommendations, accumulate them for yourself, and watch your business opportunities skyrocket.

Episode Spotlights:

  • Where to find everything for this week’s episode: karenyankovich.com/125
  • Introducing this episode’s topic (1:53)
  • The confidence to use LinkedIn Recommendations (3:45)
  • The power of LinkedIn Recommendations (4:45)
  • What is a LinkedIn Recommendation? (5:24)
  • How to get Recommendations (6:49)
  • How to give great Recommendations (12:15)
  • Episode recap (14:27)

Resources Mentioned in the Episode:

Help Us Spread the Word!

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If this episode has taught you just one thing, I would love if you could head on over to Apple Podcasts and SUBSCRIBE TO THE SHOW! And if you’re moved to, kindly leave us a rating and review. Maybe you’ll get a shout out on the show!

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Read the Transcript

Karen Yankovich 0:00
You’re listening to the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast Episode 125.

Intro 0:06
Welcome to the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast with your host, Karen Yankovich. This is where we embrace how good you are, girl. Stop being the best kept secret in town, learn how to use simple LinkedIn and social media strategies, and make the big bucks.

Karen Yankovich 0:24
Hello, I’m your host, Karen Yankovich. And this is Episode 125 of the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast. And we are brought to you by Uplevel Media where we teach simple relationship and heart based LinkedIn marketing to women that gets you on the phone consistently with your perfect people, people who you can’t wait to have the opportunity to chat with people who can change your business, your life and your bank balance for ever. Basically, what we teach is digital marketing with the human touch. We want you to actually get on the phone with people because we know that’s where the money is. So if you’ve listened before or if you love what you hear today, you know, we love to hear from you. So take a quick screenshot of this episode as you’re listening, share it out on your social media. tag me I’m @karenyankovich so that I can see it and I can share it with my audience. You know, we love your ratings and reviews. Also, they help us get a better handle on the kinds of shows you guys like to see. So also in the show notes for this episode, there’s a link for Speakpipe where we you can leave us an audio review, I would love that. Just go to karenyankovich.com/125. And you’ll see the blog for this page, you’ll see the link to Speakpipe and I can play it on the show. Give you a shout out to my audience. Check that out and leave us a review. Or maybe you just want to leave me a message. Tell me something you loved about the episode Tell me somebody that you think we should interview on the show, whatever, whatever you think we want to hear from you. So we’re going to be talking about today is LinkedIn Recommendations, and we’re living in a virtual world right now. And frankly one I think we’ve been living in For a long time, I think we’re just all starting to see the power of our virtual world. It’s been there forever. But when we’re only looking at the virtual things in our life, it becomes more visible and more powerful and more obvious to us. Right? And you know, mainly because we’re seeing doing so much less than person, we’re really seeing the impact of what our first impression is digitally, right? If you want to work with somebody, anybody that you want to give your money to, the first thing you do is a search on them. Right? See what comes up, you know, and people doing that for you, right? People are searching you before they invest in you. Hopefully your website will come up, right and hopefully on your website, you’ll have some testimonials, nice things that people say about you. But you handpick them, right? Of course you did. I did do right. That’s what we do. We handpick the testimonials that we want to have on our website. And we know that when we’re looking at other people’s websites, we know that they handpick their testimonials. You know even when someone asks you for references before They work with you. You can pick them, maybe you call them ahead of time and say Is it okay? If I, you know, give your name out to someone as a reference? Of course you do. That’s what I do. That’s what we should do. That’s what you should be doing right? So can you relate? We’re good soldiers, right? We learn digital marketing. We do what our website designers tell us to do. We handpick some great testimonials and put them on our website. Listen, I don’t hire a plumber and tell them how to fix my pipes. Right? So when I do what my website designer says, what all of the digital marketing mentors I’ve had have said over the years, right from Marie Forleo, two coaches, I’ve had two mastermind, buddies, right, everybody says, Put some testimonials on your website, and that’s what I do. And probably that’s what you do, too. Can you relate to that? But imagine in addition to that, if the next time somebody asks you for references, you have the confidence to say, just go on over to my LinkedIn profile. There’s 25, 45, 55, 85 Whatever LinkedIn recommendations there, and you’re welcome to reach out to any of those people, you can just click right through to them. And, you know, ask them anything you want about the work that we’ve done together. That, my friend is confidence, right? Yes, you can still provide a list of references. But when you can confidently send people to your website, when they’re looking to find out more about working with you, or confidently send people to your LinkedIn profile, when people are looking to work with you, that is powerful stuff. That is powerful stuff. And that is going to make you stand out from everyone else. Maybe you’ll still give them a list of references because you don’t want to make them have more work to hire you. Right? You want to make it easy for them. But the difference too is they can click right through to that recommendation to the person’s profile that left the recommendation. See how credible they are. You know, we can give references and we don’t know if they’re your brother or sister or cousin or uncle or next door neighbor, right? We don’t know That. So, you know, by by using LinkedIn recommendations as a way for people to check you know to check into the work you do, they can click right through the recommendation to see the profile of the person that left the recommendation. They can reach out to them right there on LinkedIn makes it really easy. And it is super, super powerful. Can you see that? So let’s talk about what our LinkedIn recommendation is. So a LinkedIn there’s two different ways that you can kind of get support from other people or leave support for other people on LinkedIn. One is endorsements and skills and endorsements. We’re not talking about that. That’s when people click on that they are endorsing you for a skill that you have listed on your on your profile. We’re not talking about that today. I love that. Okay, but don’t, don’t look at that. Like you’re being helpful to someone. You are being helpful to them, but nowhere near as helpful as you if you’re leaving them a recommendation. So if you want to do something nice for someone By all means, write them a recommendation, don’t just take the easy way out and click that endorsed button endorse away. I think endorsing people is a great way to just build goodwill. In LinkedIn, I kind of call it sprinkling fairy dust on your LinkedIn network. But recommendations, that is something really powerful you’re doing for someone I recommend recommendation is, was where you say, you know, I’ve worked with Mary, and we worked on a project together. And it was so beautiful to work on the project with her because I just, it was so nice to work with somebody where I knew that whatever was in her lap was going to get done. Not only was she going to succeed at it, she was going to exceed my expectations every single time. She picked up the ball when I dropped it a few times. And she’s been amazing to work with. That’s a recommendation, right? That’s a recommendation. And that’s what we’re talking about here. So I’m saying to you, I want you to get more recommendations, and maybe you’re thinking in your head. Well, Karen, how do I get I understand how I give recommendations. I’m going to talk more about that. But how do I know Get more recommendations. Well, one way you get more recommendations is to give more recommendations, just give more recommendations, especially if it’s somebody that you did partner with on a project. Let’s say you and another coach, were partnering on a project for a client. And at the end of it, it was just so nice to have a supportive that other coach, and you write a recommendation for them on LinkedIn, there’s a pretty good chance they’re going to say, huh, good idea. Let me write one back. Right. So, so give recommendation strategically, of course, to people that you think can will possibly write one back for you. But don’t just do that. Because I want you to be just really, really generous with this. If you had, you know, I mean, I wrote a recommendation one time for someone that did a facial I was at a estheticians place and somehow we got talking about LinkedIn and she was so excited about using LinkedIn that I wrote her a great recommendation after I left there because she was awesome. And I loved that she was using LinkedIn right now. It’s not gonna help me But where it does help me is like that social karma stuff, right? So don’t just give recommendations in an attempt to get one back, give them generously freely. I have a client one time that wrote a recommendation for their medical doctor and the medical doctor just truly because he was a good doctor, right. And the next time she went to the medical doctor cuz she was sick or had a checkup or something, right, just a general doctor visit. He said to her, you know, thank you so much for the recommendation, which was so nice that he remembered that right, hopefully, he made a note of it. And then said to her, I didn’t know you were a health coach. And that was they had a whole great conversation around that. And by the time she left his office, she had an appointment to do workshops for his patients, right, some workshops around the coaching that she does, simply by just providing value to somebody in her life that she thought was doing a great job for her. So the first way you can get more LinkedIn recommendations is to give more LinkedIn recommendations. And then the second way That you can get more recommendations is literally to just kind of have your ear out for opportunities to ask for one. You know, I don’t typically ask for them cold, although I’m going to give you an example in a little bit. But if somebody says, You know what, it’s been great working with you, you really over delivered if they’re saying nice things to you, it should be in the back of your mind to flip that and say, thank you so much. I’m so happy I love you know, I love happy customers, whatever nice things you would say as a result of that and then say, how would you feel about popping that on LinkedIn as a recommendation for me, because that’s really helpful to me. Now, they’re already saying something nice to you. They already want to, you know, they are looking for a way to help you, right? So nine out of 10 times they’re wishing they thought of that first. So by saying that, it’s just it’s okay to do that. Just say, I’m so glad it was helpful would really be helpful to me is right, and I bet they’re gonna do it. Very often they do it. So sometimes it’s in an email that you get after a job is finished. Sometimes it’s in the middle of a job, right? You don’t have to wait till the end, but by all means, what you can do is kind of like if you have like a wrap up checklist, you know, that’s typically when the conversation comes around to tell us how this oh, you know, tell us, what are we, you know, what are the next steps? And typically what happens when you talk about the next steps is you go over the previous steps, right? And if they’re saying nice things about you, maybe even put it on your checklist, look for an opportunity to ask for a LinkedIn recommendation. because let me tell you something. It is not just powerful to send people to it. It’s powerful when people see them when they’re checking you out. Right on their own. People check you out and said, Oh, my gosh, you have 60 LinkedIn recommendations. That’s amazing. That’s powerful, even if you’re not sending them there, right. So be an accumulator of LinkedIn recommendations. And then the last way, there’s probably 10 more, but the last one we’re going to talk about today is literally flat out asking for them. You know, I had an opportunity to pitch for a paid speaking engagement at a chamber of commerce in another state and I’ve done a ton of talks to Chamber of Commerce’s here in New Jersey. And I’ve just never really followed up to get LinkedIn recommendations from them. So I reached out to a couple of them. And I said, You know what, I’ve got this opportunity, I’d really like to send them to LinkedIn to see some nice things from other chambers, you know, that are said from work I’ve done with other chambers, which How would you feel about throwing a LinkedIn recommendation up for me? They’re happy to do it. Right there. We’re happy to do it. I mean, I didn’t you know, you could flat out ask certainly after speaking engagement, if they say nice things, again, all part of the say nice things. And but in this case, it was a year later. And and what happened was, I had an opportunity that that recommendation was going to be helpful to me if I had it. So I reached out to them specifically for that and they were happy to help. So what I want to do is go back to giving more recommendations, okay, because that’s really the power most powerful part here because yes, we want to get more recommendations. But let’s talk about giving more recommendations. You know, I already mentioned that it’s just good social media. Karma, right? When you’re giving recommendations, it’s just good social karma to, you know, to be giving out recommendations all over the place. Like you’re kind of putting the you’re filling up your social state karma savings account by doing that, right. So when you’re writing LinkedIn recommendations, you don’t want to just write Hey, I loved working with Joe, or I loved working with Mary. Right. When I would tick, I want to talk a little bit about how to write a great LinkedIn recommendation. The first thing you want to think about is how are you starting it, you want to, because chances are, they’re going to just read the first sentence first. And you want to hook people with the first sentence, right? Like it, you know, so some if you and by the way, look at the ones I’ve written, if you want an example, for people, and frankly, you’re welcome to write one for me, if you love this podcast, if you want practice writing one, See how easy that was to ask you. Right? But look at the ones that I’ve written. And, you know, kind of model them right. I like to try to make the first line a powerful first line. Okay. You want to talk a little bit about what your professional relationship is. You Want to talk of course about, you know, the achievements and what’s happened, right. So putting a little bit of information in about the role that you know the person was in when you worked together, right? Or that you even had to work together, they could have worked for you. You could have worked for them, whatever, you can write a recommendation, based on a PDF of theirs you saw, right? You gotta do something for me if you want a recommendation from me. But it could be as simple as I’ve downloaded your, you know, your free lead magnet, right? If you’re a great free lead magnet. That’s enough for me to write a legion recommendation, right? We don’t have to have worked together for six years, I can say I downloaded her free lead magnet and learn four things that I didn’t know before just from one thinking PDF. Right? Like, that’s amazing. So do you see how powerful that can be? Right? So you want to you know, provide some details of what you’re talking about talking about what their contribution was and how you know how that helped you in whatever way that you know that they helped you and tell me a little bit about the person Right, tell me a little about the person, maybe their energy or they’re so smart, or their, their attention to detail. Right? These are really important things that people are going to want to see, when they’re looking at these recommendations, right? Do yourself a favor and proofread them. It’s always a good idea to proofread. Because, you know, you know why it’s a good idea to proofread. Right. So those are just some ways to get started writing recommendations. So let’s just recap a little bit here to get more recommendations, you want to give more recommendations to start. You also want to kind of just put that at the end of the conversation when somebody says something nice about you. Right? How would you feel about writing that popping that in LinkedIn for me, and then the last time as you might flat out, reach out to someone and said, you know, that talk I did for you a year ago? Well, I’ve got an opportunity to do something similar and it’d be great to have a reference around that specific thing. Would you mind doing that for me? Right, so it’s absolutely okay to do that. And then giving more recommendations. Remember that it’s just great. Social karma. You know, it’s it is, you’ve heard this from me before, right? The best and most profitable strategy on LinkedIn starts with giving. Right not getting giving, the more you give, the more comes back to you. Okay, so so that social karma piece is so important. And then we went over a little bit about how, what makes a good recommendation, basically just starting off with a punch, and then you know, moving through the recommendation. So I hope that this is starting to make you see the power of these recommendations. I can tell you, I’m blessed to have lots of them. I do a lot of talks on LinkedIn. So it’s really easy for me to say, you know, like I said to you guys here on the podcast, if you need practice, by all means, I welcome all your recommendations if you think I’ve done a good job. So when when the time comes when I say just check out my LinkedIn profile, I get the I get the business and you know, almost all the time, because I’ve got so much social proof and it’s not just social proof like on your website of this testimonial. Social proof. But this is like social proof on steroids. Because not only is it the social proof, but you can click right through the profile, get right to the person that wrote the recommendation and ask them directly about how they felt when they worked with you. So I hope that this was really helpful in that you’re going to dive in I would love to see if you want to task for this week. I’d love to see you put a calendar item on your calendar maybe once a month to write to LinkedIn recommendations. That’s easy, right? I’ll probably take your half hour. So maybe you just put on your calendar make it a recurring calendaring item to write to LinkedIn recommendations once a month. I think it’d be great if you did it even more often. I know I slack on this and don’t do it as often as I intend to. So hopefully I will be able to do more of that in the coming weeks as well. And if you want more tips like this we do we have a LinkedIn Masterclass that you can check out at karenyankovich.comm/masterclass or go to my website, karenyankovich.com. There’s just links to it all over the place. It’s an on demand Masterclass. You can watch it at any time. You know, obviously if you have any questions after the Masterclass you can always email me or come to me we are you know, we try to be really responsive to your questions and your needs. But check it out karenyankovich.com/masterclass helps you get the next couple steps. And now more than ever, our LinkedIn profiles and our digital presence and our visibility is more important than ever. So this giving social karma thing right, a rising tide lifts all boats. I do this podcast to support you. I’ve got this free Masterclass to help you get started, which is the first step towards LinkedIn success. Let’s lift each other up. Help me Help you share this podcast. Take a quick screenshot of this episode. If you liked what you heard today, you know, take a screenshot on your phone share that on social media. Tag me I’m @karenyankovich. Use the hashtag #goodgirlsgetrich so we don’t miss it. Okay, and you know, I will share it with my audience and then we both get more visibility. We’re each lifting each other up. Let’s do this. Let’s kick some 2020 booty together. We still got plenty of time this year, to have an amazing year. I’m here to support you I want it to be simple. Let’s create our simple empires together. I’ll see you back here next week for another episode of the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast.

124 – Marketing to Affluent Clients with Kelly O’Neil

This week’s episode of Good Girls Get Rich is brought to you by Uplevel Media CEO and LinkedIn expert, Karen Yankovich. In this episode, Kelly O’Neil shares with Karen why and how we should be marketing to affluent clients.

Kelly O’Neil is a multi-award willing entrepreneur, profit strategist, and brand marketing expert. She’s on a mission to disrupt the status quo and rewrite the rules of entrepreneurship to help entrepreneurs create high-profit and high-freedom businesses on their own terms.


We want to hear your thoughts on this episode! Leave us a message on Speakpipe or email us at [email protected].

About the Episode:

Have you ever wished you could make more money while working less? I’m sure you have. But it sounds like an unachievable dream, right? I want to let you in on a secret… it’s possible!

Oftentimes in our business journeys, we start off doing business with low-price customers because we tell ourselves we’re not established and experienced enough for affluent clients. And that’s simply not the case!

So why are entrepreneurs scared to market to affluent clients? It’s because they lack confidence. But when you change your mindset, realize how powerful you are, and display confidence, things begin to change.

The Benefit of Marketing to Affluent Clients

What’s the benefit of marketing to affluent clients? Well, remember that dream we talked about? Affluent clients want to get things done quickly, and they have the money and resources to make that happen. That means you’ll get to work less while making more money. It’ll also afford you bigger opportunities.

Ready to reach affluent clients and make your dream come true? Listen to this episode, learn where to find affluent clientele and how to gain them as clients, and achieve your business dreams!

Episode Spotlights:

  • Where to find everything for this week’s episode: karenyankovich.com/124
  • Introducing this episode’s guest, Kelly O’Neil (2:15)
  • Why you should market to affluent clients (4:10)
  • Finding bigger opportunities (10:10)
  • Kelly’s challenges (14:10)
  • Kelly’s mistake (17:19)
  • Why the old model of entrepreneurship is dying (20:50)
  • The importance of strategy (25:51)
  • Kelly’s Six-Steps to the Affluent Customer Lifecycle (28:08)
  • The loyalty of affluent clients (34:46)
  • How to find out more about Kelly (37:31)

Resources Mentioned in the Episode:

Help Us Spread the Word!

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If this episode has taught you just one thing, I would love if you could head on over to Apple Podcasts and SUBSCRIBE TO THE SHOW! And if you’re moved to, kindly leave us a rating and review. Maybe you’ll get a shout out on the show!

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Read the Transcript

Karen Yankovich 0:00
You’re listening to the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast Episode 124.

Intro 0:06
Welcome to the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast with your host, Karen Yankovich. This is where we embrace how good you are, girl. Stop being the best kept secret in town, learn how to use simple LinkedIn and social media strategies, and make the big bucks.

Karen Yankovich 0:24
Hey, I’m your host, Karen Yankovich and this is the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast and we’re brought to you by Uplevel Media, where we teach simple relationship heart based LinkedIn marketing. We want to get you on the phone consistently only with your perfect people, only with people that can change everything about your life and your business and really get you to achieve the big goals that you have in your life. So this is digital marketing with the human touch we want you on the phone with people. So we have a guest today that I’ve only known for a couple months and she is amazing. I can’t wait for you to meet Kelly. She Has is doing some really amazing things in this world. She her brand is Marketing to Millionaires and, frankly, why are we not marketing to people that have the money that can pay us, right? So I think you’re gonna really enjoy her perspective. And really, that’s what we want here on the Good Girls Get Rich, right? We want you to be doing what you do well, doing lots of that, and just showing up in a big way, and really building an abundant life for yourself. So Kelly just fits right in with that. You know, we’d love to hear from you. So once you’re listening to this episode, you can take a quick screenshot, share it with your audience, let people know you’re listening. We love when you do that, we will lift you up for lifting us up and share it with our audience. Then, in the show notes, there’s a link for Speakpipe where you can leave us an audio review or maybe you just have an idea for a great guest for us. We’d love to hear that as well. So drop that into Speakpipe and you know, your ratings and reviews, they’re they’re helpful to us. They let us know where where we’re landing for you What kinds of content you want to hear more of and we know That based on the kinds of reviews that we’re getting from you, so, thank you so much in advance for all of your amazing ratings and reviews. We are grateful and thankful for every single one of them. I’m gonna introduce Kelly O’Neil now, and I can’t wait for you to meter. right we’re here today with Kelly O’Neil and Kelly is a multi award winning entrepreneur, profit strategist and brand marketing expert for the next generation of innovative companies and thought leaders. She’s on a mission to disrupt the status quo and rewrite the rules of entrepreneurship to help entrepreneurs just like you create a high profit and high freedom business on your own terms with the creation of innovative strategic scaling methodology, called the profit ology process and her flagship mentoring Marketing to Millionaires program. Kelly’s private clientele includes some of the world’s most brilliant entrepreneurial minds, celebrity influencers and Firestarter brands, making their way from seven to eight figures. She speaks, teaches and consults all over the world was named by Seth Godin as having one of the most innovative companies in America. Kelly I am so excited to have you here. I can’t wait to dig into all of this with you because it’s so in line with everything we teach here on Good Girls Get Rich.

Kelly O’Neil 3:07
I love it. Thank you so much. I’m thrilled to be here.

Karen Yankovich 3:10
Yeah. So I almost don’t even know where to start. But I think where I want to where I want, let’s just start with the fact that you jump right to the top. Like, you’re not saying, you know, let’s start here with the people where you can, you know, that are making $5. And then we’ll go to people making $25 you’re like no mark to the millionaires. And that is exactly the message that I teach on LinkedIn. You know, LinkedIn is the place where and you know, you’re probably not old enough to remember this, but I’m old enough to remember the gatekeepers, right? So in sales of the old days, you would, you know, you’d had to get past the receptionist. And then you had to get past the Secretary to the person you wanted to meet. You’re the admin and then maybe you’d get to the first level. Now we go straight to the CEO on LinkedIn, and the CEO says, I love that idea. Go call Suzy. And you know, now you can call Susie and say, Hey, your boss sent me here, right? So, so I feel like this is really in line. With this and I feel like that the first thing that I find people need to really deal with on this is their mindset. So tell me what you think of when I say that?

Kelly O’Neil 4:10
Yeah, I think that a lot of times when entrepreneurs so so for those of you who have, you know, are following me, maybe or you’ve heard me speak before I actually come from an affluent background. That’s actually part of why I have such in depth expertise in this subject aside from my marketing background. And one of the things that I have I have noticed is that a lot of times people will stop themselves because they’re like, well, who am I, to market to affluent clientele? And you know, I want to pull up Marianne Williamson, who are you not to? Your affluent clients have problems just like every other person and they are looking for qualified experts to solve those problems. And here’s what I can tell you. They’re not going to ask you to they’re not going to check your bank balance before you provide services. To them, they’re not going to ask for your P and ELLs before they’re going to qualify you as a worthy expert to solve their issue. Unless you are in some type of financial advisory role and then just like anything, right, but I always say the cobblers children must wear product. You should be walking your talk anyways, if you’re teaching financial stuff, you should be…

Karen Yankovich 5:21
The cobblers children must wear Prada. I love that.

Kelly O’Neil 5:24
That’s a Kelly O’Neil original, you’re welcome.

Karen Yankovich 5:27
That’s a tweetable I love that. That’s awesome. Because it’s true. It’s true. You have to show up with confidence. And you know, listen, I the world that I you know, my sales world I live in myself. Well, I was very often the only woman in the room. So I had to portray confidence in front I didn’t have confidence. And it isn’t about fake it till you make it at all. It’s more about exude confidence and then go figure out what the hell you just told somebody you said you would do. You know what I mean? Make sure that you you can deliver 125% you know But if you come if you if you don’t go out with confidence, then you’re never going to get that business.

Kelly O’Neil 6:05
That is so I had the same thing about a woman and also I was always the youngest one in the room because I started in branding brand marketing. When I was 19 years old, I had an internship and then I got hired at the brand agency. And so by the time I got to corporate America, once I graduated college, I already had years of experience under my belt, so I sailed ahead in my career. So I was I was not only was I a woman, but I was also a young woman, in a room full of gray haired people and you, I totally agree with you. It’s about confidence. And remember, you are the expert. Right? They’re looking to hire an expert. You are the expert.

Karen Yankovich 6:49
Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. So okay, so you started out working in corporate America. How did you break out of corporate america into an entrepreneurial adventure?

Kelly O’Neil 6:59
Yes, so I I had a very successful career in corporate America. I started out as I said in a brand marketing agency and then I went to a few other either brand agencies or PR agencies in the Silicon Valley where I grew up right so I was a tech brat. And then I decided I had gotten hired by into it. They make quick and so I launched it in 9899 and 2000. And among the road there as I was launching those products, and I was watching what was going on and i was i was a managing the PR launches. an invoice came across my desk for a woman that was doing PR consulting. And mind you I was still in my my mid to late 20s. And a woman came in she put the invoice across and the invoice for a couple of months of work was more than my salary. And I was like oh oh, I like Yeah. I’m not down with the in cap income cap thing. I’m like, I can do this. And so I took her, I asked her to go to lunch and I said, Would you go to lunch with me? I would really like to pick ask you some questions. And so I met with her should we went to lunch and I was like, okay, How’d you do that?

Karen Yankovich 8:17
Like, oh my gosh, it’s brilliant. And again, relationship marketing, right? You build you would like, you know, if you don’t ask the answers, always No. Right? So oh my gosh,

Kelly O’Neil 8:28
So that’s what happened is she started she started talking. She started talking to me about it. And at that point, I was like, that’s it and you know, I you know, I got hired away by one more start up in corporate but I was only there for seven months, I got called in, I became kind of known as a PR and a positioning sharpshooter, I would get called into companies to reposition them to achieve a specific result. So whether that was going public or getting acquired positioning as well. My jam. And so I would get called in. So I went in, I did what I needed to do. The company got acquired in seven months by AOL Time Warner. And I’m like, that’s it. This is my time. So I did, I left corporate America. And I went and told everyone and again, I wasn’t even 30 yet. I went and told everyone, I’m starting my own company. And then I got so much flack, like even my own father was like, you’re not gonna succeed. You know, this is like you’re trying to and no one. No one wants to hire a consultant. You’re too young. And I was like, watch me. And that’s all I got out. So in 2001, I opened up my own PR consulting firm, it was me a cell phone and a laptop. And I did…

Karen Yankovich 9:44
Which is all you need. All you need. All you need. We don’t need anything fancy. You don’t need a fancy website. You don’t need fancy anything.

Kelly O’Neil 9:51
I literally I had my reputation from being in the valley people heard I was going out on my own and I got snatched up immediately on a company. have very high and very high end retainers. And that is how I started my own company.

Karen Yankovich 10:09
Okay, so if somebody’s listening and they’re thinking, Okay, I hear that and I know I’m good at what I do. But I don’t have the reputation yet to be able to be snatched up by anybody. Because it at the end of the day, it will also take some bravery, right to be able to leave a paycheck and go out on your own. Right. So if somebody is like, dying to do that, and I know there’s somebody listening, it’s not probably many people listening, that are dying to do this. How do they like what is your advice for them when maybe they they have? I know they have some contacts? Listen, I teach LinkedIn marketing. I know they have contacts, but how do they weed through them weed through the different kinds of contacts they have to find those bigger opportunities right out of the gate?

Kelly O’Neil 10:49
Okay, so let me start with the first one, which is the How do you get the confidence to make the leap? So I was honestly At first I was like, This is awesome. I’m so excited about it. But then everyone When told me how nuts I was, and then I started to second guess myself, and I was like, Well, wait a minute, am I not? But I have that little. I have that thing. You know, my friend Holly says, tell me no and watch me go. I have that I have that it’s I’d be like, the best way to motivate me is to be like, I don’t think you can do that. And I’m like, really? Hold my shirt Nay, like, I got it. Right. Right. And so, you know, I was really kind of going off of an adrenaline rush and more of like a, you know, a prove me wrong type of deal. And the one thing that I would say is, you know, I think that the biggest thing and I watch this with my clients a lot, is you’ve got to get your own ego out of the way. Right? You can have so much greatness by just end running yourself. Well, no one’s gonna no one’s gonna buy or no one’s gonna want this or what if they don’t, it’s like, No, you know what? You pick up that phone when I first started business, I heard the Wayne Gretzky quote, and I have lived by this, you miss 100% of the shots that you don’t take. Yeah, you miss 100% of such you don’t take. So pick up the phone and start calling people. What’s the worst thing? They’re gonna say? Yeah, no, that’s I mean, and for every, no, you’re gonna get a bunch of yeses. And that’s really, you know, and I part of that probably also comes from me being a publicist, you get used to, if that’s how you pitch back then when I was, you know, back when we stuffed real press kits in the back room, you know, you have to you have to pick up the phone and call people and pitch them on their idea and let me just tell you, some of them would literally be like, no and hang up on you.

Karen Yankovich 12:48
Okay, and that’s where you’re and that’s where you that’s what you meant when you said you gotta get your ego out of the game, because it isn’t about you. You got to get out of the game. It doesn’t matter how many nose you get, it matters how many yeses you get, right. So you Yeah, I love that. And it’s so it’s so true Kelly, because even just with the LinkedIn marketing work that I do, my challenge to people is I want you to connect with five people a week. And I mean, I can get into detail on that and all that other stuff. But five people, we all have time for that. Yep. And 999 out of 1000 times when somebody calls me and says, this LinkedIn stuff, it doesn’t work. I say, really? How many connection requests did you send out last week? None. How many the week before? None. How many before that? None. Well, that’s see why isn’t it working? You know, it’s not working because you’re not doing the work. I’m not asking you to send out 2000 things. I’m saying I need a half hour of you a week. And that and that is just the minimum to get started. Imagine if you were really intentional and targeted, but if but but people feel like they get they’re uncomfortable with that with the ask. And there’s so many ways to make the ask that it is warmer and that feels good and that it’s it’s supportive and not, you know, not used car salesman a right. So many ways

Kelly O’Neil 14:00
totally, completely. I, you have to ask if you don’t ask you you have a guaranteed No, right?

Karen Yankovich 14:08
Right. Right. So, so what challenges did you have you told us about all the good stuff? Were there challenges besides the fact that everybody in the world told you you’re an idiot because I get that I was there too.

Kelly O’Neil 14:18
Of course there were, yes.

Karen Yankovich 14:22
Tell us, tell us

Kelly O’Neil 14:23
Oh my gosh. So I mean, look, I’ve been in business for almost 20 years, right. I have been in business for almost 20 years. And in the 20 years that I have been in business, I have had so many mistakes, I’ve made so many mistakes, I’ve had so many things not work. Um, and you know, I think for my I think for myself, you know, one of the things that was a you know, I naturally when I went into start my business, I naturally marketed to affluent clients. Right, I marketed to small emerging companies that could afford to pay my retainer. Because I was like, right, why wouldn’t you do it this way?

Karen Yankovich 15:08
Right? And that when I tell you, that does not always come naturally to people?

Kelly O’Neil 15:12
Well, but to me, it was like, like, kind of like a Well, duh. When I got into I remember I decided at a certain point that I was like, Well, you know, I think I really want to help entrepreneurs, because I didn’t really, here’s what I knew how to do. I knew how to market and I knew how I knew how to be scrappy. Right. I knew how to I knew how to pick up the phone and not take no for an answer. That’s one of the things I knew how to do. But I had no idea how to build and run a business. None. And, and it’s back in that in that time. It’s not like it is today where there’s a gazillion people out there supporting entrepreneurs and building businesses, right. It just didn’t like it. Like I picked up a book my firt my very first business coach was Alan Weiss, who wrote million dollar consultant. He was my first business coach and how I found him was I was like, Oh, well, I’m going to start a consulting company. I don’t know how to do that. So I went and bought a book. Yeah, yes, I started my entire first company was like, Oh, well, this is pretty good. You probably know some more stuff. Maybe I should call him and ask him for some advice. And he’s like, sure. I’m gonna give you some advice. I’m gonna charge you $3,000 for it. And I went, done. Right. That’s how I started my company.

Karen Yankovich 16:28
Right? Oh my gosh, yes, yes. Because you weren’t born knowing how to do all this stuff. Nobody was so I was doing have to get help. And you have to pay for that help and, or just buy the book even. I mean, at least that’s a good place to start. You know, I remember working when a company that I own a while back I used to always have I’m a by the book person also and, and I remember somebody going to be like, getting in my car and going, Oh my gosh, do you have these books everywhere. I’m like, Did you think that I was born knowing how to do this stuff like there is always a book going because there’s always something new I want to learn and totally something new I want to do and and that and there’s you know, once you get the book, then you can figure out is it the right path for you or not? If you resonate with it, if not, then you go to another book or another person, right? But you need to get the help but but Okay, so that was doesn’t sound like a mistake, right? That sounds like not even a mistake, but a challenge. That sounds right. Sounds like brilliant.

Kelly O’Neil 17:19
So here was the mistake. The mistake is that I, I went and I started going to seminars. Mm hmm. here’s, here’s the mistake. I went and I started going to seminars, and I’d never been in that in that world because I’d always been in the, you know, in the corporate world. And I loved it. And then people started saying to me, Oh, my gosh, why are you doing this service based business when you can make money in your sleep. All you got to do is throw at the time it was you just need to write an E book and charge $97 for it. You put it online and you’re going to retire a millionaire I spent the next because I’m a I’m a determined gal. I spent the next I don’t even eight years, trying to follow the mass marketing model. And you know, by sheer hustle, grind and force. I got my seven figure business, but I will tell you that with every single dollar that I made, I kept less.

Karen Yankovich 18:29
Ooh, that’s important.

Kelly O’Neil 18:31
So when I started my business with my laptop and cell phone, and I was doing $300,000 a year in consulting with my overhead being like, $50 a month free, darn good. And then went from there. I went to making like $50,000 a year, right? On a million dollar company. Right. And, you know, I think that that was the And that was really the thing is that I really believe so here’s what i believe i believe in hiring experts. I think it’s I will tell you I think it’s actually super stupid not to write I’m not going to go out and try to guess and figure out how to use LinkedIn on my own which is exactly why we like exactly why I partner with exactly why I’m bringing you to my clients, my clients, I’ve already trained them like do not go and try to you know, mess around for the next year. You need to hire someone who already has mastered it. Yeah, and have them shortcut you to being able to figure out how to ROI on it in you know, a month or two Yep. Right. That’s the smart that’s what smart business owners do. But I really did believe that a lot of you know the people in the quote unquote coaching industry because I think there’s a very big difference between those of us who are strategist and consultants and those in the in the coaching industry. I really bought I drink the Kool Aid. Yeah, yeah. And then I threw the Kool Aid out And I started to become profitable again.

Karen Yankovich 20:02
I hear you, I hear you. I mean, I kind of did the same thing. I started my business doing like kind of digital marketing. And I’m like, every time I’d ask somebody, where does most of your business come from 99% of time, they’d say referrals. I’m like, okay, so why are you spending all this time on Twitter and Instagram and LinkedIn, and Facebook? I’m not saying you shouldn’t do those things. But if most of your business comes from referrals, and why are you not building out a better way to get more referrals? Right, why are you tweeting 600 times a day and I tweet sometimes I’m like, I, you know, I love those platforms. But I want you to build a business that allows you to pay people to do those kinds of things. Yeah, and and do the things that you do best, right, and stay where the money is. Right. I love that. And that leads into the next question, because I kind of feel like and I think we’ve talked a little bit about this too. Tell me a little bit about your theory about why you think the old model of entrepreneurship is a dying art form.

Kelly O’Neil 20:55
Yeah. So here’s basically what is happening is when you look at the way that people are taught to run business like there’s there’s a couple different things number one, there’s like super old school business right and this is like our our fathers and grandfathers generation of how to do business well that’s that’s been dead right? But then this entirely new way of doing business came out and what what’s being taught in the marketplace right now is not sustainable. It’s based on what I call a hustle and grind mentality. They so I ever really analyzed this because when I went from doing really well to doing what I would call and people might say, but wait a minute, you like tripled your your business income with that I kept less so I don’t really care how much money my business is making. It really is about how much I’m taking home and my quality of life. Yes, right. Yeah. So so when I, when I started when I took a step back and I was like, This model is broken, there’s something wrong and I’d also started to dig behind the scenes and realize that no Everything that is being talked about is necessarily true. And you know, there was, well, you know, I kind of, you know, you know, when you get up and you start to see the behind the curtains of the AWS and you’re like, wait a minute. Yep. That’s not what your sales page says. And I was like, now there’s something super flawed with us. And I and I started to look and I said, you know, with all the resources that are available out there right now to entrepreneurs, like I said, this wasn’t available. When I first started, I bought a book and like, reached out with my, you know, pardon my French but my lady balls and asked the guy to be my mentor. Right, right. But this wasn’t available. And I started to look at this is the broken paradigm. And here’s what it’s based on. Generally, when you get into a lot of the programs, not obviously, I’m present company excluded, because you’re brilliant. I’ve personally used your program. It’s brilliant. When you get into a lot of these programs out there. First of all, they are based on one size fits all strategies, which I don’t believe in. I don’t think that that works for anybody. Yeah, in business because every single business person is different. Every single ideal client is different. And your skill sets strengths and also the assets that you have available to deploy. Those are different. So when they get in, they ask you like, the level of clarity that they’re after is like, How much money do you want to make in your business? A million dollars. Okay, great. So now we’re clear. No, that is like, not even remotely clear. That’s like, that’s like that’s, like such a surface level question. And then the strategy that they give you is okay, you’re gonna follow my blueprint, and you’re gonna do exactly what I tell you to do. They don’t ask like, Hey, are you good at this, Hey, is this something you enjoy doing? Hey, is this something that you have a natural is this even where your clients are? They’re like, Just follow my blueprint. And if that doesn’t work, I just want you to keep doing it. And it’s a very hustle and grind mentality where it’s a lot of doo doo doo and you jump from tactic to tactic tactic to tactic doing all of the things where you are extremely busy, maybe productive, maybe not. But you couldn’t be really productive, but you’re not yielding the results that that model of entrepreneurship is, is dead. And people are catching on to it.

Karen Yankovich 24:14
I couldn’t agree more. I mean, I that is literally in every presentation, I do exactly what we just talked about, because I think that because I’ve been there, I did that. I didn’t know. I did that. I’m like, oh, and then it’s exhausting, and you’re not making any money. And then, and then there’s like, okay, I want to have a six figure business. I’m like, okay, go work at McDonald’s, because you’ll have more money in your pocket. By working at McDonald’s, then you will with a six figure business and I am not trying to knock you guys that are looking to make your first six figures because I that’s a huge milestone, and I honor you for doing that. But you got to think bigger. You got to think bigger, because that’s not enough money for you. That is certainly not the same as a six figure paycheck, somewhere near the same as a six figure paycheck, you know, and it keeps you in that hustle and grind that you talked about. It keeps you in the hustle and grind when you don’t think bigger. But when you think the first thing we do in the program, Kelly that you mentioned is, the first thing we do is we say to people, what is your big win on this? And nine out of 10 times in a year, that’s not big enough, I don’t want you to have 10 of these $1,000 What’s a $10,000 win? Like, what’s a 20? Like I want you to, and then we reverse engineer everything to make that happen. And honestly, we’ve incorporated mindset coaches into our program now because it’s a mindset challenge, more than it’s a LinkedIn strategy challenge sometimes, right? So, so true, you know, so because otherwise you, you know, I don’t want to teach and I know that I didn’t teach. I mean, I probably have taught that over the years. I mean, I had programs that taught Twitter marketing and different things like that. And I love Twitter. I talked to tons and tons and tons of people on Twitter, but it’s not the same. It’s not where the majority of my business comes. Majority of my business comes from talking to people.

Kelly O’Neil 25:51
So we have a saying in our company and it’s actually become one of our catchphrases, and then it became a actually the tagline to one of my programs. That strategy is the new home So we don’t do anything that’s not strategic. So I am teaching you know, in in our marketing the Millionaire’s program, we’re teaching people specifically how to attract affluent clients, how to find them, how to engage them, how to sell them, and how to impress them so that they refer you to all their friends, right. And obviously LinkedIn is the go to for all of our b2b. That is, again, that is how you and I met is I was looking for a solution to help train our clients on that. And then in our in our other programs, we are looking at how to strategically set up and operate businesses. And the biggest thing that I’m teaching them and I agree with you, it’s mindset because the minute that they take their foot off the brake, and the the minute that they let go of the addiction to doing all the things like they’ve been taught, is the minute that we start to see real progress. Because you don’t have to do all the things you have to do the right things in the right order. And there isn’t Order just like getting up and getting into your, you know, it’s like I didn’t get up this morning right sign my horseshoes. Yeah, I didn’t I didn’t do my hair and makeup and then jump in the shower. Right? That would be a waste of time. But I see entrepreneurs doing that all the time. Yeah, so main reason, you know, again, my background is in brand positioning and, and public relations. The number one reason why people stuff is not working is because they tiptoe through clarity and leap frog strategy and gotten to action and they do not have a clear position and they do not have a clear message. So I don’t care if you go out and you do all the things, right, you can do you can you can do stuff for 20 hours a day. But if you don’t have a message that is connecting to your audience, you’re just making noise.

Karen Yankovich 27:54
Oh my gosh, yeah. So okay, how you have a you have a six steps to the affluent customer lifecycle. We’re probably gonna have to hustle through this, even though we’re saying we don’t hustle and grind. But I do want to get to that. And we could talk forever about this other stuff. So tell us a little bit about your six steps to the affluent customer lifecycle.

Kelly O’Neil 28:11
Okay. So whenever you’re looking at building a marketing strategy, you need to look at the lifecycle of your customer, like what is the step by step process that they go through. And again, in being strategic, we want to think these things all the way through and then I heard you mentioned this is that we want to reverse engineer them so that we have the most strategic efficient way to achieve the results. Alright, so the number one thing that we need to do is you’ve got to understand your affluent buyers because here’s the thing. And just like if you were marketing to if you’re a woman and you’re marketing to a man, or if you’re men and you’re marketing to women, you talk to people differently. You would talk to, you know, a baby boomer differently than you would a millennial, right? Isn’t that’s just like basic human behavior. You could have a different conversation with a five year old than you would a 16 year old now. Same thing with your affluent clients, your affluent clients have different needs, they have different problems. And they have different desires, they are not shopping on price, they are shopping on value, and that value to them is in the eye of that specific affluent clientele. Right. So they’re looking for results, they’re looking for time saved, they’re looking for convenience. And they’re looking to do business with an expert who can help them achieve the results that they desire, whether that be personally or professionally. So that’s number one, you’ve got to understand them because if you don’t understand them thoroughly, then you again, you’re dead in the water before you even get out. So we have as an example, in our program, I’ve gotten entire training on understanding the buying motivators all of the, you know, the hot buttons, what makes them tick, how they buy, what they buy, why they buy. So that’s that is step number one The second thing is you got to know where to find them right now. So I will give you guys a link that Karen can put in, in the show notes to a special report where you could learn how to find affluent clients, right? Because that’s the number one question I get. Where do you find? Yeah, where do you find them? Guess what, they’re not hiding. Right? They’re not hiding, but you do need to know exactly where to to be able to find them so that you can actually have a conversation with them. And it’s not going to be in the same places as an example. And you’ve brought this up multiple times. Very rarely, if ever, am I telling people go jump on Twitter, but I’m telling people every day go jumped on LinkedIn. Right? So you’ve got to know where they specifically are hanging out. Once you figured that out, then you got to engage them right? So you need to create an experience for them that engages those ideal buyers and and part of that is being able to obviously, you know, capture their Contact information. But you’re not going to do this in the same way that that like a mass marketing person does. They’re not gonna, they’re not gonna fall for that. And even the way that you nurture that contact, like if you just put them into some benign email funnel, that is not going to work for them, because again, they operate differently. But eventually, if you’ve done your job correctly, and eventually can be very quickly, because your affluent buyers move very, very quickly, when they’re looking for a solution, you’re going to have the opportunity to solve their problem. So when you’re developing a relationship with them, and you’re doing this through the sales process, you have the opportunity to present an offer to them, that’s going to solve their biggest challenge. Now, again, offers are done differently with affluent clients. They’re not looking for what is typically taught in the market of the you know, gajillion bonuses I want 92 calls a month, like they’re gonna be like, Oh my gosh, no. You know, they’re the people that want to buy a day consulting to say, like, Hey, I’m gonna fly you in. I want you to consult on my on my company or you know, it could be it could be differently for personal stuff, but I want to get it done in a day, I want it fast, and I’m willing to pay for it. So actually, the kicker is, you’re going to get paid a lot more for less time. Because that’s what they want

Karen Yankovich 32:24
everybody listening to that, everybody listening to that? Because Yeah, yeah, and they’re gonna get huge value huge, they’re gonna get huge value, because they’re giving you enough money that you can provide this huge value to them. One was to nickel and diamond and going well, I don’t have enough to budget for this. And I have enough in the budget for that.

Kelly O’Neil 32:42
Exactly. Right. So you’re going to have the opportunity to present them that and then you’re going to have the opportunity to have a sales conversation with them. Now, here’s the great thing. And this is one of the things I love about selling to affluent clients. You don’t have to sugarcoat this thing. You don’t have to tell them like hey, I want you to come to a discovery color with suits. Simple coaching sessions are like no, they’re they’re there to have a sales conversation. And they know that. And the way that I, you know, I teach people to close on millionaire clients or affluent clients is very different, you know, then then talking to someone where you’re gonna have to jump through a lot of the mindset issues, they’re not there with mindset issues, they’re like, I have a problem, I need a solution. Are you the one to do it? So I teach a four pillar relationship selling enrollment conversation. Okay. So that’s how you’re going to solve their problems. So now we’re on now we’re on Step four, right? So you’re understanding them, you’re finding them, you’re engaging them, you’re solving the problems. Now once they enroll, your job is not done there. You need to impress them. This is where you need to design campaigns that are going to transform your clients into raving fans. What is it that you’re doing even on the the way that you’re enrolling them the way that you’re serving them, that’s going to provide them with an exceptional experience with whitening Love customer service, you need to design that from the get go. We start with when we’re designing campaigns that our company or we’re designing programs or service offerings, it’s okay, so here we are. And Bob signed up with us. And Bob is referring us to 10 of his friends. Now work backward from there. Right? I work backward from from that, because that also offers you the opportunity to upsell them. And the sixth step is receive referrals. Your affluent clients are very loyal, and they understand referral marketing. They’re not and this is something I’ve noticed between the masses and the the athlete like I, and I don’t know if this I don’t think it’s just because I’m in marketing. But you know, I let you know, before that I’m in the middle of a remodel right now. I have gone on and written reviews unasked for several of the contractors that have come to my house. I was like, hey, if anyone else Because I understand and value my time, and I want other people to be, you know, I know that they value their time and they want to find the greatest contractors. So I’ve gone on and written positive reviews for all of the amazing contractors that I’ve worked with. But your affluent clients are loyal, they’re going to refer you over and over and over again, huge Islam, you send this message in huge, it is huge, because you guys, here’s the thing, a lot of this mass marketing stuff out there teaches you, they’re teaching you to constantly do customer acquisition, which is important. I’m not downing customer acquisition, it’s super important. But it’s not nearly as important as making sure that the the affluent clients that you’ve already got had been served so well that they go out and build your business for you at zero marketing cost.

Karen Yankovich 35:47
Okay, I hope everybody paid attention to that. That was brilliant. That was brilliant. Kelly, thank you so much for sharing that. So we’re gonna put lots of links in the show notes for you guys to be able to connect with Kelly and to learn more about Kelly, and I really do think that It’s important message because as I said that it’s it is the mindset. You know, I will say that I’ve fallen into this myself, I remember somebody asking me, I wish I could tell you it was 10 years ago, but it wasn’t, you know, what, who’s your ideal client? I’m like, Well, I like, you know, women who are successful in their business. But you know, frankly, they’re, they’re realizing that there’s not a ton of money going into their pocket, because they’re doing all these other things. But they’re like, so you want broke people? I was like, no. And they’re like, Well, that sounds like what you just described to me. I was like, Oh, my gosh, you’re absolutely right. And that was a mindset shift that I had to make, right? Because I knew that they wanted to get to that next level. But I was assuming things about them that were wrong, and I was assuming the wrong thing. So. So it is a mindset shift on every step of the way, every step of the way. And why not? Go for the people that have the money. That because here’s what happens when you go with people that have the money, you can offer scholarships to the people that can’t afford you, you get offer. You can do more for people that aren’t Not in a position that you think would be great, but that are not in a position to invest in your products and services. If you aren’t, you know, if you’re if you’re really if you are really abundant, you can share that abundant more easily.

Kelly O’Neil 37:12
Yep, absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. And also, a lot of people don’t even realize that they’re, they’re unintentionally marketing to people who don’t have money to afford their services.

Karen Yankovich 37:21
That was exactly what I was doing exactly what I was doing, not realizing that’s what I was doing. So I you’re providing such a great service in this world, Kelly, I’m so glad that we connected. How can people find more about you? We’ll put the links in everything to the show notes. But what else do you want to share? And how can people find more about you?

Kelly O’Neil 37:36
Sure. So you guys, I also have a podcast called Marketing to Millionaires, you guys can subscribe there. I’ve got a great Facebook group. I have a LinkedIn group that I’ve just started under your tutelage which is very exciting. Um, so you guys can find me guess what they’re called Marketing to Millionaires. And one of the most exciting things that we have going on is We have a Marketing to Millionaires Experts Summit that is starting on June 22, where I have all of my phenomenal partners, right? Just like Karen, I’ve got my phenomenal partners who are specialists in utilizing like their special skills, expertise and gifts to be able to help you find affluent clients. So you’re going to get to hear Karen talk about her expertise and using LinkedIn to lead source clients. We’ve got a ton of other really phenomenal people, everyone from learning how to connect with celebrities, to learning how to utilize podcasts to as a networking strategy to a bunch of others. So if you want to join that then again, just jump on.

Karen Yankovich 38:46
You definitely want to do that. By the way. This is starts June 22, 2020. If you guys are listening to this on reading Like Kelly is going to be available on demand after that?

Kelly O’Neil 39:03
you betcha we’re gonna leave, we’re gonna leave this up evergreen and continue to offer content to it. Because, you know, there really is no one else out there in the market teaching this. And so we want to be able to provide people, this strategy right now, especially given and this is what I’ll leave this with you you’ve heard a lot of people in the marketplace talk about pivoting strategies. If you don’t pivot now, and start marketing the people that can afford you. You’re going to be in hot water at the very best in three to six months, because we know that we’re sliding into a recession or even worse given everything that’s going on in the marketplace. And this is a strategy that helps you rise above that because your affluent buyers are still buying.

Karen Yankovich 39:51
Okay, that is there is no better way to leave this in this interview then On that note, Kelly because that is I found that to be true. And I hope everybody Listening is found that to be true, and so many people are assuming that’s not the case. Don’t assume, assume that they are buying and go and go for it. Awesome. Kelly, thank you so much for being here. We will put all the links to all of your stuff in the show notes and in the blog. I can’t wait to see I can’t wait to be on your summit. I can’t wait to watch everybody else on your summit. And thanks for doing this.

Kelly O’Neil 40:20
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Karen Yankovich 40:22
Wasn’t Kelly, amazing. I hope you enjoyed getting to know her as much as I enjoyed getting to know her. She’s doing some awesome, awesome things in the world. You definitely want to get in on the event that she’s hosting the virtual event that she’s hosting. I’m honored to be a part of it and the links are all over the Show Notes for this episode. So get in on that. Remember, if you want my support, just go on over to karenyankovich.com/masterclass. You can learn a little bit more an overview of how we support people on LinkedIn. You get some really good tips and training in that master class. It’s always updated. That link always has our most updated training and it’s You definitely want to get in on that. And I will see you back here next week for another episode of the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast.

123 – Supporting People of Color with Lisa and Simone

This week’s episode of Good Girls Get Rich is brought to you by Uplevel Media CEO and LinkedIn expert, Karen Yankovich. In this episode, Karen discusses with Lisa Brathwaite and Simone Craig what we can be doing through a #BLM lens to support people of color.

Lisa Brathwaite is the marketing copywriter and content consultant for Uplevel Media. She helps people create and craft their stories for conscious connection. 

Simone Craig is the CFO of Uplevel Media. She owns an accounting business, and she also is the host of the A Mind for Money Podcast.


We want to hear your thoughts on this episode! Leave us a message on Speakpipe or email us at [email protected].

About the Episode:

It’s a sad reality but even in 2020, racism still exists. As it’s been brought into view for all to see in recent weeks, are you struggling to find just what to say or do in your personal and business response? 

If so, you’re not alone. At Uplevel Media, we wanted to have an open, honest conversation about how #BlackLivesMatter aligns with us individually and in our company.

It’s important that we at Uplevel Media make the time to take stock to ensure we’re being inclusive, not exclusive. In this episode, Lisa, Simone, and I share our perspectives on issues you may be grappling with in your sphere of influence. We also examine Uplevel Media to see how we can help our clients create and feel welcomed in inclusive spaces.

We’re dedicated to walking the walk, not just talking the talk—but it does start with a conversation. Listen in and join us.

Episode Spotlights:

  • Where to find everything for this week’s episode: karenyankovich.com/123
  • Introducing this episode’s guest, Lisa Brathwaite and Simone Craig (3:48)
  • Lisa’s introduction (4:47)
  • Simone’s introduction (5:35)
  • Where Uplevel Media stands (9:49)
  • Lisa’s experience with Uplevel Media (12:41)
  • Simone’s thoughts on the challenge of racism (16:43)
  • Having values (19:46)
  • The richness of diversifying (26:05)
  • What Uplevel Media should be addressing (28:00)
  • Incorporating diversity (35:37)
  • Closing thoughts (46:24

Resources Mentioned in the Episode:

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Read the Transcript

Karen Yankovich 0:00
You’re listening to the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast Episode 123.

Intro 0:06
Welcome to the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast with your host, Karen Yankovich. This is where we embrace how good you are, girl. Stop being the best kept secret in town, learn how to use simple LinkedIn and social media strategies, and make the big bucks.

Karen Yankovich 0:23
Hello, everyone. I’m Karen Yankovich, the host of the Good Girls Get Rich Podcast and I am here with a really special episode today. It is Episode 123. And I need to give you a little backstory as to what’s kind of why we’re doing this episode what we’re doing. This episode is scheduled to go live on June 8, and we haven’t recorded it yet. And that is so like, Listen, I’d love to be saying that I’m weeks ahead on this stuff. And I’m not typically weeks ahead, but I’m usually more than two days ahead. And the reason for that is you know I’ve had a lot of conversations in the last week or two around diversity and equity and justice and inclusion. And as I started looking at my podcast schedule, I was looking at it going How can I release a podcast this week that says, Here’s how to use your LinkedIn recommendations. So that show is coming, because I do think that’s what you guys listen to the show for. But I also think that because LinkedIn, and the LinkedIn strategy and the marketing strategy we do is so baked in personal branding, that we can’t not talk about this. And you know, when COVID-19 hit, I distinctly remember the first podcast episode I recorded I was still in Florida, and I came home from Florida on March 13. So I was talking about COVID-19 on my podcast before we were before we were shut down before we had to, you know, kind of shelter in place. And I because I basically what I was saying were things like if you offer virtual services to people, now’s the time to talk about it. If you think you can provide a service to people that can help them through a trying period. They won’t know that if you don’t tell them about it, right. So I was talking about that from the very beginning, and it felt really out of integrity. To not be talking about this yet, here I am sitting here a white woman as the CEO of Uplevel Media, not really doing a lot of listening this week and not doing a lot of talking yet on my podcast, I do a lot of talking. So I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what to do around this and what I landed on. And thankfully, I have two smart, beautiful, amazing women of color on my team that agreed to do a show with me, where we literally are going to pull the curtain back and have a brainstorm. None of us have talked about this before, on how we can incorporate these policies, not into not just into our business, so that they’re more diverse and and equitable and inclusive, at the same time, incorporate it into the work that we’re doing with our clients into the she’s linked accelerator program and into the LinkedIn profiles we write. So we’re kind of just going to see where this conversation goes. And I thought that I can’t be the only white Woman CEO that’s that is having these same kinds of issues to having trying to figure out what my voice is. I think that it’s important, my voice is part of this conversation because it is my podcast and you look, you look for my voice on this, and I’m not looking to hide behind the people on my team, but I am going to kind of let them lead this because, for me, I’ve had many, many experiences more than I am happy to even talk about where I have been confronted with my own racism. And, you know, you don’t know it until you’re confronted with it. So I surely am not qualified to lead this discussion. But, you know, I definitely want to be a part of it. So hopefully that makes sense. Lisa and Simone, does that make sense to you, you guys on board for that? Okay, they’re shaking their heads, yes, even though you can’t see them. Alright, so let me introduce them to you Lisa Brathwaite is she is the marketing copywriter and content consultant for Uplevel Media. Lisa helps us with some of the experience in our groups, and some of The emails that go out and some of the ways that we built she helps us writing LinkedIn profiles. So a lot of the work that Lisa does a lot of the copy, you see Lisa’s had a hand in. And Simone Craig is my CFO, my chief financial officer. And they are both very much involved in the day to day business of uplevel Media. But I also want to be really clear that neither one of them are coming to this conversation as an expert in, you know, advising me or anyone else on diversity, equity, justice as inclusion and inclusion. They have experience not only as women of color, but also as people that are part of my team. They know the kinds of work that we do. So that’s, that is kind of where we’re going with this and we’re kind of just going to see where this goes and take you lis take you the listener along for the ride. So Lisa, why don’t you introduce yourself a little bit to everyone here.

Lisa Brathwaite 4:51
Hi, everyone. I’m delighted to be here. Again, I am Lisa Brathwaite, marketing copywriter and content consultant with Uplevel Media. At my essence, in core, I’m a writer, and my words have taken me many places around. Well, they’ve taken me many places and opened up a number of doors for me and hence professionally, I’ve held a number of roles. But I’m just happy to use my words. I’ve helped people create their stories and craft their stories. And in a time like this, I think your words and your story and your positioning is very important. So I’m delighted to be here and be a part of this conversation. And I’m looking forward to it.

Karen Yankovich 5:30
Thank you, Simone. Tell everybody a little bit about you.

Simone Craige 5:35
Yes, so as Karen mentioned, I’m CFO for uplevel media, and my background really is in accounting. And I, I started a accounting business for myself in 2007, and then landed in the online space about 10 years ago. And as Lisa said, I think it’s an important A conversation to be having. I’m very much about my my mission, which is why I have chosen to work with Karen really is not just because I love the work that she does in the world, but it’s really important to me to support women entrepreneurs, specifically in closing the wealth gap for themselves. And just really on a on a personal note, and I guess professionally too, I’m really hoping that however we land on the other side of what’s happening, what’s really important that’s happening now that we also start to have a conversation about economic empowerment. Economic Empowerment, is the foundation for empowering communities empowering families, and so we can’t really have a conversation about changing the inequities in the world until we talk about a shift in economic empowerment and that’s where I’m really excited. about continuing the conversation, once we get through this, this time that we’re in right now that I think is really powerful and important. Oh, you have a podcast that supports people with that too, right? So tell everybody what your podcast is. And we’ll put a link to that in the show notes. Thank you. Yes, my, my podcast, my new podcast is called a mind for money. And you can find it at simonecraig.com/podcast or at amindformoneypodcast.com and it’s, it’s all about wealth mindset for women entrepreneurs.

Karen Yankovich 7:36
Awesome. So, you know, we were I was really intentional about really trying to not have a lot of this conversation beforehand so that we could really truly do it live because I do feel like, again, I know, I know where I have trouble knowing what to say where to say it, how to say it what to do, and I can’t be the only other person that is is in that situation. So one of the The things that I did when I first started, I mean, listen, I feel like I’ve been listening for a long time. But in this past couple weeks, it is different. It is just different. And I don’t know what why that is or what it is. I’m happy that it’s different. But I feel called to stand up in a more powerful way around around these topics. So I did a little poking around in my entrepreneurial friend community to find out who was supporting people like me, too. And I remember distinctly looking for this a couple years ago, and I couldn’t find it Who can help me know what to say how to say when to say it. How can I learn to be better at this as a business owner, and I couldn’t find it but now I was able to find it. And truly LeBron had a did a workshop on this called show up and serve. And I subscribed to that I didn’t get to see it live, but I did subscribe to the replay. And I listened to it once all the way through it was long, and we’ll link to that too if anybody wants to listen to that and kind of and I listened to it once already. way through. And I’m in the process of listening to the second time taking notes, because I felt like I needed to just take it in once. So I can. So here’s the here is this is this is, this is purely an issue that I’m having around this. And that is like time, I want to show up and be present for this. I want to listen to her entire two and a half hour workshop. I am in the process of listening to the E book, how to be anti racist. I’m loving every minute of it. But I also have a business to run, right? So I’m not there’s not excuses. I’m trying to manage all the time around these things. And I would have loved to come to this call already having gone through that a second time and taking notes to the whole thing. And I just didn’t get all the way there. But I did take a few and really what, what I think there’s a couple things that I think are really important. And I kind of want to start with just up level media. Right? I think that, you know, one of the things that Trudy talks about is there should never be a question about where we stand and up level media. like nobody should be able to see anything we do and have a question about where we stand. That sounds good, right? I don’t know how we actually do that. And that’s what we’re here to talk about. You know, so basically how are we baking this in? You know, we have to we have to really talk a little bit here about how we can bake this in and I guess we can start by saying the easy things like the website, but what are we saying on the website? Right, like and I and I’m truly asking you guys this question. Like, from the work that you’ve done with me and uplevel media so far, and again, I’ll be I will I need to say this because I feel the need to say this, I love that half of my team are women of color, but that happened, because I love you guys. Not because I said I want a team that’s diverse. And I’m just being honest about that. Right? Like maybe I need to be I’m not maybe it clearly I need to be more intentional about that. Right? So it was almost like I was like, okay, check. Got that one checked off. Right. And I don’t say that I’m not proud to say that but that’s just the reality is that, you know, I and you know that I listened to you guys about everything you say. But we’ve been having had this conversation before. And there’s many, many things I’m sure that may have happened over the time Lisa’s fairly new to the team, Simone. I’ve known longer, but she’s also you know, we’ve literally expanded our team a bit in the last six months. Have you seen anything that you know, right off the bat that you say? I think we should start here? Like, what do you guys think? I’m gonna let you take it away.

Lisa Brathwaite 11:19
Well, let me just before we get into that, I have to share something that I just was kind of amused at this morning that I saw on Twitter is by a comedian named Z Wei. And her tweet was right now every employer in America is terrified that their black employees will be honest about their work experiences.

Karen Yankovich 11:39
Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

Lisa Brathwaite 11:44
I share that just to share that she’s probably right. And you’re probably not alone. And it’s it just made me chuckle I just…

Karen Yankovich 11:53
Yeah. So Lisa, here’s the thing. Like I also have to look at this and go Where’s How do I come at this then? from a place of integrity, not a place of my voice, somebody is waiting to hear my voice. Do you know what I mean? Like It Is it can’t really be about me. Right? So yet, if I don’t say something right now, that saying something as well, so so that’s kind of what I hear when I hear that I totally get with what they’re saying. But at the same time, you know, I do feel an obligation, not just morally, but culturally, you know, and that’s why we’re doing this because I really couldn’t figure out what the right method was or media was or whatever was to, to do that where it felt like it was an integrity for me. So that’s a great way to start this. And that’s awesome.

Lisa Brathwaite 12:40
Well, and And with that, I will say, you mentioned how you brought Simone and I along on your ride up level media ride because you thought we were smart, intelligent women and for me, I like working with and associating with courageous and brave women edition. And that was one of the things that I appreciated about you and that I saw on you. Because there are so many instances over the course of my professional life where I could say, I’ll be at a conference or something. And I’ll I’ll just know, someone will say, that’s just too much work to try to even engage. It’s just too much work. And so they’ll go to another portion of the room or something or other. So the fact that you’re brave enough to engage, I just want to appreciate that and tell you that that’s the fact that you were deliberate or intentional about thinking, well, maybe the podcast shouldn’t just be me business as usual on Monday, maybe I should bring in my team members. And by the way, the fact that you had to readily available that you could reach out to that you were already in relationship with as opposed to Who am I Rolodex can I find?

Karen Yankovich 13:50
Can I tell you Lisa I started that way. I mean, full disclosure, I started that way. I reached out to Trudy LeBron, as soon as I heard this, and I said, I need to have you on my podcast, and she’s probably swamped and I do Today, if you’re listening, I do still want to have you on my podcast. But but that happens maybe later because this isn’t a conversation for just now. Right? This is a conversation that needs to continue. At the same time, you know, I need to be continuing to deliver the kinds of content people have signed up and download this podcast for every week to do right. So again, that’s where that’s where it comes back down to how do we bake it in? So then there’s no question about where we stand. It’s baked into everything, but we’re still supporting people in the way that they’re expecting to be supported by us.

Lisa Brathwaite 14:30
Right. And I think the bake again, starts with an awareness first and foremost, and that’s what I’m trying to tell you that let’s let’s get to a place of awareness. You can’t bake a cake. If you’re missing an ingredient and expect that you’re gonna have a gorgeous cake like you have to be aware of well, do I have all my ingredients in place and do the work to go and purchase what you might need? If you need eggs? go seek out getting eggs. You don’t have to say to someone Hey, do I need eggs can can you bring me eggs like it’s your cake. Get some eggs.

Karen Yankovich 15:01
So I’m kinda asking you if I need eggs.

Lisa Brathwaite 15:03
Well, yes, but you’re not making you’re not expecting me to bake the cake. You’re saying, I’ll bake the cake.

Karen Yankovich 15:10

Lisa Brathwaite 15:11
You know. And so I appreciate that. And the fact again, I will say this right off the top, this is Lisa, coming from Lisa’s experience so important. I just want to make that clear. I do not speak for everyone in the African or black community, because they might hear exactly what I’m saying right now and say, Oh, my God, I can’t believe she said that she should have said, so please understand that when you all don’t know when I should see you all, when people who are not people of color are challenged, to come up with the right words to say, just understand that black people and people of color. We’re not a monolith. So we face the same things of Hey, I’m just speaking for myself based on my own experience, and someone else will speak and they’ll say something and it will be their experience. It’ll be authentic, if they’re true and real about it. I’ve just coming to you with what I have based on what I’ve, what I’ve experienced. And I think that’s all we can really ask of anyone. Yeah. And then when you just come with that bravery, then we get into all the messiness of baking the cake, right, the flour on our nose.

Karen Yankovich 16:15
So I feel like that message, hopefully, is already baked into everything. Because I’ve say, almost every week on the show, and certainly in the course, this is the way I teach it. This is what works for me. There are other ways to do this. There’s probably a few wrong ways there’s not one right way, you know, so take what from this what you think works and move on. So that just ties right into, you know, into the message that I hope is baked into everything we do. And I know Simone, you are shaking your head. Yes, on that, too.

Simone Craige 16:42
Yeah. Yeah, I guess awareness too. And it and I think now, right now is it really calls for I think there’s the challenge. Again, my opinion that I think happens with Racism, prejudice is that there’s all these assumptions running underneath the surface that never gets spoken, you know, that are never like brought to light. And so I think that’s what can be powerful about this conversation in this moment is that it gives, as she said, everybody an opportunity to really say and speak, where you stand, like, Where Where are you on this like? And very specifically, you know, do you do you believe that black lives matter? Are you black lives matter? Are you all lives matter? I think that’s kind of what she’s asking is kind of, very specifically is, where do you stand? And it’s not so much about where you stand necessarily, but are you? Are you communicating that clearly to your people? And is that communicated clearly to your team? And is everybody feeling like that what happens in the business is in alignment with what it is that you believe.

Karen Yankovich 17:59
So here’s But I think about that, I think and we will get to this in a little bit. But I think that the better job we do of communicating that the better and alignment the people that we attract will be to that message.

Simone Craige 18:10

Karen Yankovich 18:10
Because that could be a challenge as well. And I love that. I love that because I think that it’s important, but you know, it is coming. From my perspective, it can be a little bit confusing, because even just, you know, as I process through ways that I can build equity in, right, I mean, equity really means that equity doesn’t mean we’re, you know, your equal equity means we’re not equal. And what do we need to do to to make it more equal? Right? So I think about things like, you know, do we do scholarships? Do we do you know, do we do just, and then I read things that say, No, we don’t want a handout, we want a hand up and then I read No, you need to do. I mean, I can’t even tell you how many. I’ve gotten 20 different suggestions on that topic from 20 different people. And I take it all right, I take it all in because I don’t know because I will have to process it and see where I feel on it, but at the same time I don’t want to be in a place where I’m being insulting, or whatever, which is why we’re having this conversation. Right. So So, you know, coming and I’m just being on, you know, just being honest about that, like, as I try to listen and learn, there’s so many different messages to listen to. And I mean, I was Lisa, I joke this to Lisa the other day, like I totally, you know, there’s on the surface, I know a crap ton underneath the surface that I’ve no I still have to deal with. But on the surface, of course, I believe Black Lives Matter. I donate it and I donated money to them the other day, and then the next day, they came out with this defund the police campaign and I’m like, do I believe that? I don’t know if I really believe in that. Do you know what I mean? Like I don’t know Do we really want to defend the police today? You know, so it’s so there’s there’s always i think that i think what I’m saying is that it’s Oh, I’m feeling like it’s okay to to have a value but then have things be the not be in full agreement with every single little piece of the of the conversation. How do you guys feel about that?

Simone Craige 19:59
Yes. I mean, I there’s, as you said, we’re not a monolith, you know, everybody has a really beautiful time. And it’s a very emotional time. And we’re all kind of processing this, this together. And I think we have kind of different things to process. I think that we as black people have different things to process about this moment than white people do. And so we’re all kind of figuring it out, you know? So I don’t I don’t know that now is necessarily the time to affirmatively say, Okay, this is what I’m going to do, because this is what this person said at this post. That’s… You know, so I think we all just need to kind of step up where where you feel called to step up, but really just giving ourselves I mean, we’ve been in this maybe a week, two weeks, right? And right, this is offseason pain of 400 years. In this country, right, okay. So a lot to kind of ask anybody to come up with anything, especially is not an expert in this. Right, right, Aaron, this is what you should do to move forward. And this is the right thing to do. By way of black people like that. I feel like that’s almost impossible right now. But I think it’s helpful to hear from you that you do believe that you do stand with black lives matter. That’s good to know, you know, right, right. Right, right. Like, he was a personal friend, right? I know you professionally as a CFO, so I understand who you are as a human being and I have the assumption, but didn’t know really affirmatively till you said, Oh, I do and I donate it to Black Lives Matter, you know. So that’s very me, and I appreciate it. But well, you know, the cop thing and how should I feel about that? I can’t tell you how to feel about that. Right? Right. All black people feel the same thing about that. Yeah, the best, you do the best where you can, and but you but you have to stay true to you and what you feel is, is best for you and be willing to just to be honest about it. Like, personally, I feel it’s not even so much the the because I really feel as Americans racism is the air we breathe, right? It is no…

Karen Yankovich 22:24
And I have come to learn that. But let me tell you, that was a hard lesson for me to learn that I truly am a racist, still, in many ways that there’s things that I have to learn. And I have to uncover layers of that layers of conditioning that is not easy for me to say and it comes up and that is why I need to be called out. Because I don’t know. I mean, sometimes I catch it myself. And other times I don’t, you know, and…

Lisa Brathwaite 22:53
I feel like, I feel like I need to stop you there Karen because I just said I am a racist. Again, this is Just Lisa and misinterpretations and feelings about this. I would not, I will not let you go out there and say that okay, that you benefit from white privilege? Yes. I’ll let you say that. But to say that you’re, racist, no, I’m not going to let you say that.

Karen Yankovich 23:20
See this is the these are the things I’m listening and learning about. And but here’s what Okay, so I really don’t want to make this about me but but this is why it’s important that we have this conversation, because I don’t know what I don’t know until I see it right. And I’ve told I think I’ve told both of you guys this, but I go back to the conference that the talk that I did a few years ago where it was a talk to, you know, a group of women of color. And I’m sitting there in the morning flipping through my presentation while watching the Morning presentations, and realize there wasn’t anything but a white woman woman in any one of my slides. And I was like holy hell, and I just didn’t ever see it. I created the slides. I have no one to blame but myself. Right. So of course, thankfully, I caught it. And I ran out in the hall and I grabbed my laptop and I, you know, and I was able to adjust it before I did a presentation to a roomful of black women with not a single person of color in my slides. But that’s what I mean about me needing some help around my business. I thankfully caught that, but it is just as likely that I didn’t catch it. Right. So that is why I say that, like that’s, those are layers of things that I have to uncover, to be able to get to the to be able to get to where and I probably will be doing that till the day I die, right? Because how would I how and there’s some other things we can talk about, we’ll talk about we get to help in supporting our clients, but you know, how would I know that right? And I’m not making that as an excuse, right? But that’s why I need to, and maybe we need to find maybe we need to hire a consultant like maybe that’s what we need to do to bring somebody in here professionally to help us do this from a business perspective. Right. I do think that we have to talk about it from a how we bake that in Everything we do, because I really don’t feel. And please tell me if you disagree with this, I really don’t feel that I do want to have a comp when this podcast comes out, I do want to have some conversations in my groups about this podcast, and just see what you know where it comes up, especially as it relates to when we start talking about things like the LinkedIn profiles that we write, and we help people with, um, but I don’t think that I am the person to be out there, you know, talking about you know, I mean, we certainly can be talking about diversion and equity and things like that, but I don’t know that that’s not what I teach. I teach people how to show up in a big way how to create a personal brand that allows them to, to fill their bank account, right, they show up in a way that positions them with people that that are powerful people. And I don’t know, is it naive to say that’s not my message to do? I mean, what do you guys think?

Lisa Brathwaite 25:51
Well, no, I think you can do that. I say yes. And Okay. Yes, you can do that. And you can I know we can get into more specifics about it later. But yes, you can do precisely that what you’re doing in your business. And you can say, by the way, as you’re looking for speakers for your next event, if that’s what you are, consider a person of color, have consider that you might want to diversify your panel. And it’s not just, it’s just really because you’re missing out. But you’re missing out. You don’t, you’re missing out on a great deal of richness and a knowledge base that you’ve probably never tapped into. And it’s really I mean, the way I look at it, it’s really it’s too bad. Like, yeah, I feel I feel personally sorry, when people don’t engage with others that don’t look like them. Don’t think like them, because you’re just so limited. And I really feel sorry for you versus going out and looking to access the vast the vast richness that is available to you. Yeah, just give it an opportunity.

Karen Yankovich 27:00
I’ve ever looked at it that way. I don’t think I’ve ever really looked at it that way. Because I think we just tend to include the people that are around us. Right. And, you know, MC, thankfully I have, I have lots of diverse people around me. But that still doesn’t mean. I mean, it’s still, I still have to intentionally I’m not intentionally doing it enough. For example, I know there’s a lot of and this is exactly where we said, we didn’t want this conversation to go, you guys, but I think we’re hot. We’re here. So let’s go there. We were, like, we’re gonna keep it focused on how we support the business around this. But maybe that is what this is right? You know, there was a conversation a few years ago, and this might be where I was initially looking to bring a consultant in a diversity consultant in around, you know, I get asked to be on summits all the time, not one time in my life. Did I look at the list of other people there to see is it diverse, not one time in my life that I think to do that, I think to do it now, right? But I didn’t think to do it then. You know, so and this is what I mean about uncovering the layers, you know, that I’m sure there’s going to be more layers that I haven’t found yet. So, so just Do you think that at this moment in time, like, do you guys see anything we should be addressing right now from a corporate perspective and we’re not really looking to hire more people at this point? You know, maybe one more person depending on you know, what’s going on we just brought somebody else in to kind of help us with the team. Do you think there’s Is there anything you that stands out to either one of you and please be real here that I should that we should be doing right now from a corporate perspective? To you know, to support the team and to to bake in this message into every single thing we do?

Simone Craige 28:32
There’s one thing I don’t I don’t know about baking it in. But there was there was one thing that I remember you and I had a conversation about, hopefully, it’s okay to bring it up. But you and I had a conversation about how you know, you were doing your I don’t know what it was, it was a workshop or something. And and I think it was a black woman or women of color said yeah, this you know, I like this. This is great, but I don’t feel comfortable. Putting my picture up on LinkedIn, because I have, I feel that I, you know, as a black woman, I’m not going to be hired or there’s going to be, you know, a judgement about, you know, me as a black woman on LinkedIn, I can’t approach my LinkedIn profile the way a white woman or a white person can get. I don’t necessarily I don’t know the answer to that, you know, LinkedIn is not my…

Karen Yankovich 29:23
Right. And that’s that’s really where that’s exactly where I wanted to go. Next was how because I she, I mean, what could I do other than just sit there and stunned silence because i would i have i it had never occurred to me. Right. He was of course absolutely right. And I all I really did was applaud her because she had just put her picture up. So I was like, applauding her for kind of stepping into it and just saying, screw it. I’m out there. I’m amazing. I’m going to tell the world I’m amazing. And I’m going to show the world I’m amazing. But if we’re going to start to dive into the the work we do, there’s actually did that that’s actually the beginning. controversial right now. So on the whole thing was your LinkedIn picture? Oh, and the reason for that is LinkedIn requires you to have a picture of yourself, well, it didn’t require you to have a picture of yourself, but they require you not to have a picture of something that’s not you can’t put a picture of a dog, you can’t put a picture of, you know, a pen. Right? And, and there were people that were using, like blacklivesmatter signs or things like that as their profile picture. And LinkedIn made them change it and said, LinkedIn requires you to have a picture of your face. You don’t I mean, yeah, and I got I get that. I mean, it is about you. It is about your personal brand. So I get that that is their rule. And I also know that there are probably many people out there that have a picture of a pen that we’re not told that they have to change their thing. My guess is that LinkedIn doesn’t really pay attention to it unless somebody reports it. And this is such a hot topic right now. And I have no idea if this is true. So I probably shouldn’t be saying this. Right? But think that that there may be people that are reporting profiles that are out of the LinkedIn Terms of Service. And it sucks. That that’s the kind of thing that’s getting reported. But I kind of understand the LinkedIn saying, you know, these are our rules. And this is why we have these rules. We are not Facebook, we are not Twitter. We are not standing on Capitol Hill, trying to defend the bots and the fake profiles. We stand here and say, we want to see your face. We want you to show up. We want to hear your voice as you that that’s and I didn’t we really haven’t talked about this at all, because I wanted to hear your thoughts on that. Like I, I kind of understand it, but I’d love to hear what you guys think about that.

Simone Craige 31:38
I understand it too. And I think as Lisa was saying, there’s an opportunity there like there’s an opportunity to serve people and maybe in a different way or specifically the people of color or black women or men in your community that have that kind of That hesitation or that block? And I don’t know that the answer is necessarily that you don’t put your picture up. Maybe you put your picture up, but there’s a different conversation about how to still be successful or still make your LinkedIn profile work or still work it even with your picture. Or maybe there’s some mindsets of I don’t know that there’s there’s a lot of opportunity there in you know, instead of getting caught up in Oh my God, this black woman just told me about it. I don’t know, you know what I mean, which, you know, it can be wow, you know, wow, okay. That what a curious what a curious challenge that is, wow, I wonder how we can navigate that. And I think that’s a powerful way to incorporate it in your, in your business or even in your program, even to just…

Karen Yankovich 32:48
I think we do want to talk about that because I think we do need to do that. But I think that those are two separate things, right. One thing is, do you put you know, I mean, that there is a hesitation to put your personal picture up. Because you’re a black woman or a black man, but this issue is LinkedIn is racist because they LinkedIn is shutting our messaging like LinkedIn is not letting us speak our truth, because they’re not letting us do put this where the picture is. And I think that those are two separate issues. I mean, I can’t do anything about that, right. Like, I don’t have any control over what LinkedIn does or doesn’t do. But I can have a point of view on it. Right. And my initial point of view is, is I kind of get it, you know, like, I kind of get it. But am I being naive when I say that?

Lisa Brathwaite 33:30
I think there’s an intersection there of policy and personal. Yeah. And I really, I look forward to having the conversation about people saying, I feel like hiding behind the the framing of Well, that’s a personal thing. And that’s political. And I I’m about this and it’s just my business, and I don’t get into things like that. But again, talking of opportunities. I understand LinkedIn, as far as I know, that was their policy before. Yeah, recent events. Yep. So They want you to have a picture. Yeah. That’s a policy thing. And that’s their company. And that’s their right. Um, where I see the opportunity with that, though, in the personal is we say, All right. Do you Are you aware that there is a segment of the American population that you think nothing of putting your picture up on LinkedIn? But for some, this is a real professional concern? Yeah. That if they put their picture up, someone might pass them not even take a look at their profile, simply because of the picture that appears? Yeah. Are you aware that this is happening? Yeah. How do you feel about that? And if you’re not aware, I’m telling you, so now you can be conscious of that. Yeah. Ask yourself Have you done that before? Have you looked to reach out to someone and as soon as you saw their picture Did you say up? Let me go on to the next. Yeah, all of these things are things that people I feel like once you see them and once you’re aware Then, if you’re it’s up to you to decide quietly, I would just ask anyone, you don’t have to post on Facebook, you don’t have to scream. But just ask yourself these questions quietly first and sit with them. And if you know better than after that do better. And if you don’t, and you willfully say, yeah, that’s what I do. But you know what, I don’t feel like changing that. Okay. Okay. Yeah, time will tell if you were on the right side of history with making that decision or not, but that’s certainly your prerogative, right?

Karen Yankovich 35:35
Absolutely. So there’s a part of me so in our She’s LinkedUp Accelerator Program. And at this point, we’re gonna have more ancillary videos, then we have actual training videos and each in each module, but there’s a part of me that wants to do a video for each module that is around diversity, equity, justice, and inclusion. How does that apply to this piece of content that we’re doing? teaching in this module. And again, we have one on PR, we have one on mindset we have we’re in court, we’re about to add one on how your assistant can support you. So now I want to add a fourth ancillary one, but, you know, what do you think when I say that? Do you think it should? That’s how I feel like we can bake? Or do we bake it into the content? Do you know what I mean? Like call it like, and this is not something we have to decide right now. But these are the kind of conversations I want to have about how do we incorporate more of this because everything we’re talking about here for Uplevel Media and you know, Karen Yankovich, his name is and picture over everything else also applies to every single one of our customers because we teach visibility, we teach visibility, we teach personal branding, and this is a part of their personal brand and maybe they’re looking for help with how to I’m gonna keep saying bacon any, you know, baking it into their own brand, right. So Lisa, I mean, Lisa writes LinkedIn profiles for us, among, among other things, So just let’s start that conversation a little bit. What do you think about that? You know, just in general, like, What is your reaction? When I say we can pull it, we can make it a separate little video under each module? Or we can just incorporate it into the module? Or do we? Or am I just saying, What am I just going over the top? And, you know, it’s not something we really need to even address.

Lisa Brathwaite 37:21
You know, it’s like Simone said before, I mean, these are things that we’ve been processing. I can say, I’ve been processing this all my life, I think most African Americans or black people, I’ve been processing these sorts of things all my life. So when you asked me specifically about something like that, I don’t feel this is just me, you know, my favorite word is marinating on something, I don’t feel that’s something I would have to sit with. You know, like, I that’s near enough. It’s something I have my initial reactions to things, but then it’s like, okay, but how does that work? What would that look like? And so I that’s where I’m going kind of add. I’m like, I think you could look at it from a number of angles, and just say, Well, I don’t I really don’t know. I have some thoughts. My initial thought is that I don’t I still kind of wrestle with the fact that you have to put out a sign that says Black Lives Matter. Like that’s sad to me. Yeah, I know. I’m have to actually make that statement to say yes. As a litmus test. Oh, yes. Black Lives Matter like that, to me that, that we’re talking about this and having this conversation in 2020. Like, I have to get past that to even say, well, should you or shouldn’t you? Yeah, cuz it’s just sad. Yes, we do. Yeah, but we Yes, we absolutely sad as it is.

Karen Yankovich 38:46
Yeah. Because if I’m saying there cannot be a question when people look at my brand, my website or my LinkedIn profile or anything about where I stand, then we have to, how do we then incorporate that into when we help clients have that same thing like when when we put out their LinkedIn profile? Do I really? Do I want each profile to have to say NPS? I believe black lives matter? Of course I don’t, you know, but how do we make it then? So that as we’re helping people create the brand, which very often is the first, the first thing people see about someone, right? Like if somebody says you need to work with someone, Craig, first thing I’m going to do is put some on Craig’s name and Google and her LinkedIn profile is going to come up. Right, so So how can we as we advise people, and frankly, we’re writing so many LinkedIn profiles now? How do we then incorporate that? So that there is never a question about where our clients stand in this? And again, I’m, I don’t have any answers on this. I’m just saying these are the conversations I think we need to have.

Lisa Brathwaite 39:48
Well, I feel like in that case, I would ask the client, I mean, is this something that you want to unequivocally say, in your profile, if we’re teaching people this is about your personal brand If we’re teaching people to lead by your values, if we’re teaching you people to be authentic, and telling your story, that’s a part of your story. That’s where we’re at in the world today. Like, it’s, it’s part of your story.

Karen Yankovich 40:15
We are saying, like, do you do work virtually? If so, rewrite your about section to talk to off, make sure you offer that. We don’t however, and maybe we should. We don’t however, say, you know, do you have preferred pronouns? Right. So we’re not asking that question. Maybe we should be asking that question, too. Right. You know, but I think that because, you know, if we want, if I want to walk the talk, right, then this is a conversation we have to have, and then we’ll have to figure out and I guess that’s what we’re doing now starting the conversation and figuring out how to bake it into your LinkedIn profile. So that so that there isn’t a question on where you stand. And it doesn’t it maybe it’s not, I don’t know, is it a cop out to say maybe it’s in your images Maybe we’re looking at their media as we share it and say you realize all the media you’re sharing is just a bunch of white old, old white men. Do you know what I mean? Like, maybe it’s that maybe those are the kinds. Maybe that’s a start for this. I don’t know. I mean, you know, maybe we start with that, so that there’s, you know, that starts the conversation. And maybe we update the maybe we need to update the intake form to say, you know, what, I mean, how important is it for you that people understand, you know, where you stand on any of these? I don’t know, what, how do you? I mean, I don’t want to do it in a way that’s insulting, but at the same time, you know, on gender issues on, you know, on issues of race and issues of diversity issues, you know, I mean, on gender issues, our program is called, she’s linked up. We are like, by the name of our program, you know, we are maybe not being inclusive and I, and really my, my goal with calling it she’s linked up isn’t to be exclusive. It’s because I feel like women don’t feel included in the conversation on LinkedIn. All right, I’m gonna just say Because what came to my head but this is maybe this is like the women on LinkedIn like, like, you know, I need to be speaking to the women on LinkedIn, like Black Lives Matters speak to the people here like you are included here, right? And I don’t mean to equate them, right. But that’s kind of what came to my head when I said that I’m not saying I don’t care what your body parts are, I don’t care, you know how you identify, we can help you in this program. But I know that women are feeling excluded on LinkedIn. And I feel like by naming our program, she’s linked up, it helps them feel included, and therefore they can benefit from the amazing opportunities and the relationship building that can happen there that and believe me when I tell you, I get challenged with that decision a lot. Because us women aren’t as easy to whipping out our credit cards as men are. You know what I mean? So I did challenge with that decision a lot. You know, I can tell you at Simone, you don’t even really know this, but I can tell you at this moment in time, one third of the people that bought the program in May were men And two people of the people that bought the program in may ask for refunds because they got buyer’s remorse, clearly buyer’s remorse and they’re both women. So just by virtue of doing this alone, you know, I feel like there’s not a standard we’re taking. But, you know, I’m really I really feel passionate about really making feel women feel feel welcome on LinkedIn and to and to help them understand the power their men are really willing to invest in themselves. Women are just not which is where Simone’s work is so important, right? Yeah. So, you know, are we being in Are we being you know, are we not being inclusive, even just by that or do when I say all that, what do you guys, what do you guys think?

Lisa Brathwaite 43:44
Again, still processing all of this. I feel like when you say, okay, the name of our program is, She’s LinkedUp, then yes, that’s clear. It’s called she’s linked up. You’ve made a stand instead. You didn’t say people are linked up. You said, She’s LinkedUp. So you’re clear. Now, whoever comes by and learns about She’s LinkedUp. They can then decide, okay, I identify with that. that resonates with me. Someone who believes that women are second class citizens, a man who believes that women are second class or what have you. He’s not going to join up for your program. He’s he’s not he’s moving. Yeah, but isn’t that okay with you?

Karen Yankovich 44:34
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Lisa Brathwaite 44:36
So you’ve what you’ve done is you in my opinion, you’ve made it clear where you stand so that people, if that resonates with them that it’s not Well, I’m not sure if if I’m looking at Karen, who says she’s linked up and if I’m looking at someone else, who offers coaching and says, We’re linked up, if she’s linked up means something to me, value wise, if that really resonates with me, I’m likely going to go with You’re she’s linked up program, I could probably find a place for myself and that we’re linked up program. But I know for certain she’s linked up. There’s something there. There’s an element there that resonates with me. And the gentleman who thinks that women are second class citizens will probably say, Nope, She’s LinkedUp. It’s not for me, I’m going over here to We’re LinkedUp.

Karen Yankovich 45:19
And the guys that join our program are the coolest guys too, because they are confident in you know, themselves in a room full of women. Cool.

Lisa Brathwaite 45:26
I am there to engage with,

Karen Yankovich 45:28
I swear we’re gonna make this an hour and we’re already coming on an hour. Do you guys don’t realize that? I feel like there’s so many things we didn’t talk about. What didn’t we talk about that we need to talk about?

Lisa Brathwaite 45:40
I think we just need to I mean, to me, this is indicative of where we’re at. This is a conversation. It’s not a one and done. This is something that’s going to just continue. And the question is, are you going to keep showing up for it? The question is, Are you just going to wish it away? I hate to inform folks, but this conversation is not going anywhere. It’s not going to blow over. So, you know, it’s it’s, it’s uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. To be Yeah. If you call yourself a leader, if you call yourself a leader in the business world in any way, shape or form if you’re trying to show up as a leader. Here’s your time. This is what it takes. Leadership is not easy nor convenient.

Karen Yankovich 46:22
All right. Well, I you guys, I am so honored to have you on my team honored that you agreed to do this. I don’t know if this was helpful to people or not, I guess we’ll find out when they listen. It was certainly helpful to me, because we’ve now taken the first step as a company down the direction of incorporating a lot of this into our world. And clearly, the naivety of me thinking we were gonna have a half hour conversation and we were gonna have some answers. It was it was pretty funny now in hindsight, but I feel good about it. I feel good that we have some ideas. Lisa will marinate on some of these things as it relates to incorporating it in the LinkedIn profiles. You know, so because I think we have to I think we have to, I think I think we have to be there for people that want that. And and we have to, and maybe they don’t even maybe no one’s asked them if they wanted that right. So maybe we just maybe weren’t for now we just need to people that need to be the people that ask them if they want to be to be no, you know, how they want to be known on these issues? And do they want that to be, you know, clear as people look at their profile, right, maybe that’s where we start with this just being the people that ask those questions of the people we help. And for those of for you that’s listening, you know, by all means, please give us feedback on this. If you have ideas, I want to hear them. I am a big fan of what I heard what I learned years ago called lateral learning. You know, this is not just me, preaching or the or Simone and Lisa preaching. I learned from everyone that listens to this podcast and share things with me and I encourage that I you know, I am an absolute sponge. These days, I just need to find a few more hours in the day. And then I’ll be able to listen to all the things I want to listen to, I might need to go on a drive or something, you know, just go out for a three hour drive and put some audiobooks in the car. But I don’t I’m not even really sure how to close this out. You guys. I think that I think that well, do you want either one of you want to say anything before I wrap this up? I know you both kind of did a little bit. But is there anything else you want to say before I want to make sure I’ve got your voices heard?

Simone Craige 48:29
Well, I just I want to clarify something that I said. Is is that i i do truly believe again, it’s just my opinion. I do truly believe that as Americans that racism is the air we breathe. That doesn’t necessarily mean that I mean, it’s kind of like the it’s, you know, we’re fish in. And the water is, you know, this but it doesn’t necessarily mean that I believe that everyone’s racist. I just that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying is there’s there’s certain, you know, I guess the term is unconscious bias or exert bias that we’ve all been brought up in, and we it’s now in our face, and we’re here dealing with it. That’s, that’s, that’s what I’m saying. And I think as Lisa so beautifully said, I think the PowerPoint right now is awareness. That’s, that’s the power right now.

Karen Yankovich 49:28
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Lisa. How about you anything else you want to add to this? Or have you just said your piece?

Lisa Brathwaite 49:33
I think so. I just want to say it just in general, To be continued and just be brave.

Karen Yankovich 49:41
Cool. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So you heard Lisa To be continued. This conversation will be continued. I don’t know what that looks like. But we are doing our what I am doing what I can to continue to learn and to continue to support you. As you listen to this. I hope that this helped you if there was any. I mean, I don’t know. I don’t know if there was any answers, but at least you know, you’re not alone if you know that there’s confusion. So, you know, this is if you are not already in our complimentary Facebook group, you can check that out at LinkedIn for women community calm, we’ll get you to the free Facebook group. We encourage you to join us there. Once this goes live, we will absolutely continue this conversation there and in our paid groups, and we want your feedback. I want your feedback. I you know, I am you know, I won’t I won’t know what I don’t know what I don’t know, right. So don’t hesitate to give us feedback. Give me feedback. And I look forward to hearing from all of you, Lisa and Simone, thank you so much for being here today, you guys. And I’ll see you back in the office on Monday. And we’ll see how quickly we can get this out to our community. And I’m grateful for both of you. And I’m grateful to all of you that are listening to the show. Have a fabulous week, everyone. We’ll see you all again here next week for another episode.