259 – Dr. Cynthia Hawver Shares Strategies to Overcome Burnout and Prioritize Self-Care

Karen Yankovich 0:00
You’re listening to the good girls get rich podcast episode 259

Intro 0:07
Welcome to the good girls get rich podcast with your host, Karen Yankovich. This is where we embrace how good you are girl. Stop being the best kept secret in town, learn how to use simple LinkedIn and social media strategies and make the big bucks.

Karen Yankovich 0:24
Hello, I’m your host Karen Yankovich. And I am so excited to bring Dr. Cynthia hover to the good girls get rich podcast this week. I’ve known Cynthia for a bunch of years now and had the absolute honor of working with her and having watching her shine and just absolutely soar. And the work that she does is so important because you know sometimes the last person we invest in or support is ourselves and her business is solely focused on helping women really take care of their self care really avoid burnout, especially moms and especially moms that are entrepreneurs. So I really look forward for you to meet Dr. Cynthia, however, I am so excited to be here today with Dr. Cynthia Hava Dr. Hover is a licensed psychologist certified coach, the host of the mama shrink podcast writer and speaker in her specialty area is working with moms at midlife in the midst of parenting. With a specialty focus on burnout, she developed a three stage model of burnout and dives deep into what’s underneath the burnout. To get at the roots. Dr. Hover has appeared as a guest expert on many many shows. I’m looking looking at her bio here, and she was recently featured in the Scranton times as the new coach in town. Dr. Harper is currently working on her forthcoming book hosting her monitoring podcast and provides coaching to high functioning moms parenting at midlife as a professional speaker. She lives in Northeast Pennsylvania with her two beautiful boys rescue puppy, and bearded dragon to learn more, you can check out all the links on the show notes here. And I have known Dr. Hover for gosh, maybe what would you say like maybe like eight or nine years now?

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 1:58
Yeah, say yeah,

Karen Yankovich 1:59
For like eight or nine years now. We were together a few years ago. And we’ve recently come back into each other’s lives. So I knew this was a topic that my that my listeners here to the show would want to hear about this. This. Frankly, I want to hear about this whole burnout thing. Right. So I’m so excited to have you here today. Thank you. I’m happy to be here. So you know, it’s interesting. I have, you know, 100 questions for you. But I think the the thing that’s most interesting is the burnout piece, right? My kids are older now they don’t live at home. So I’m not in a state of having to manage raising kids and running my business at the same time. But even without that, you know, I found myself during the pandemic, right? Where you seven days a week, because what the heck else was there to do? Right, and then all of a sudden, back to life. And now I’m still doing way too much. In fact, just like this week, I’m like, I need to have clear boundaries around non work time. So I would imagine I’d I would have been I know because I’ve done this when I had I have four kids, I’ve done this with my four kids at home. That you know, burnout is such a thing. So what made what brought you to kind of bring your focus to that?

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 3:08
Okay, great question. So I think during the pandemic, I was not able to work all the time because I had a kindergartener who was sent home in 2020, and a second grader, and I was in my late 40s. And it was crazy. So I think with kobold, it really turned my life around. I was practicing psychology running a private practice, I had six therapists, hytta, COVID, and how to turn everything virtually have two little kids at home in the middle of the dining room, making it a school. And on top of that, and December of 2020, my mom passed away suddenly. And then during that time, I also became the primary caregiver for my stepfather, who had leukemia that was in a more dormant stage, and it became a cue, and five months later, he passed away. So in June of 2021, I was having a joint funeral for both of my parents, I felt like I had been going through the motions of life, I’d given up my dream of starting an online business, you know, and that’s where you and I had met years ago, but everything had to go on hold. And being an older mom, and I think a lot of people from the generation that I grew up in, you know, being a Gen X person. We were taught, push through, push through, we’re hard workers, we just keep going, keep going. And the concept of burnout gets thrown around a lot. But I think what’s so insidious about it is people don’t know how bad it is, until they start to step out of it. And you start to look at oh my gosh, my world is crazy. I am being pulled in so many different directions. And when you mentioned boundaries, when I looked at the concept of burnout, I really go deep behind what’s causing us not to it’s not just having self care. It’s really doing the deeper work of am I worth it setting boundaries becoming assertive stop being perfectionistic trying to stop this overwhelm that, you know, as entrepreneurs, we want to do all the things all the time. And when we love our work, it’s so easy to say, Yeah, I’ll do that. Yeah, I’ll do that. And then we find ourselves just completely even the thing that we love, we have no time to do anything.

Karen Yankovich 5:33
Oh, my gosh, that’s so true. That’s so true. And, you know, listen, there’s something to be said, for doesn’t get easier every year that goes by, right. Every year that goes by it gets a little bit more challenging, you know, for certainly for myself, I can speak to that. I think that, you know, my brain is still engaged. But you know, sometimes the rest of me gets a little gets a little tired from all of this, right. And even that, like, even though just recently, I’ve been thinking, like, I feel like lately, like, I’ve been forgetting people’s names more, and I’m like, is it like, my age? Or am I just freaking over, worked and burnt out? And honestly, like, it was a little bit of a wake up call for me, you know, I’m like, you know, what, you got to deal with this burnout before? You know, yeah, as I’m not willing to just, you know, like, say, Okay, well, let me just take some drugs or something for this, like, No, I gotta, it doesn’t get easier, right. So, you know, I had my kids a little bit younger, and it was crazy, then. So I would imagine, you know, having little kids in your 40s is nuts. It’s nuts. But it’s good. Because on the other hand, like, you’re older, and you have to think about, okay, how do you know I can’t do as many things physically, maybe, or keep up with the 20 and 30 year old moms. However, like, we have more resources, I feel like worldly things to offer our children. So we are kind of like, I don’t think I would change it. I just don’t think I would I was in for Yeah, I get that. You know, I have I walk you know, I have grandkids and I watch my grandkids sometimes. And my mother in law used to watch my kids a lot. And all of her grandchildren, she used to watch them a lot. And I think about her so often now like how much I had no idea how much it took out of her. I just had no idea. And now that I know, I like literally this woman’s been gone for a long time. But I’m talking to her as much now as it did when she was alive. Yeah, I’m so sorry, I didn’t. I’m loving every minute of it. Right, but also like needing a nap a lot. So you’re also making the shift from a therapist practice and in person therapy practice to an online business model. And I know we talked about that years ago, and you explained already in the show what you know why you kind of put that on hold. But tell us a little bit about that. Because a lot of the people listen to the show are in some kind of transition. Right? They are, you know, especially, you know, in 2023 I think this was a big year of transition for a lot of people. We didn’t know what the heck was going on in our lives. The last few years, it was just like, doing whatever we needed to do to, you know, think we could figure this out. But also I think mental health care, mental health care took a huge hit during the pandemic. I think there’s just not even enough therapists to handle it now. And I think like you said, I don’t think we even know what we’re in for. As far as burnout. We don’t even know we’re being burned out or that we’re operating in burnout. So what a crazy what a crazy specialty to have in the first place. And now shifting it. So what made you decide you wanted to shift from private practice to to a coaching practice, or medical private practice, I should say to a coaching practice?

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 8:28
Yeah. So I think, you know, I had had this idea of switching to a coaching practice way back maybe in like, 2016, I think you and I had met for B School, and you know, and it was just becoming like a thing. But you know, I’m the breadwinner, so I had to keep my private psychology practice. And I love psychology and love being a psychologist. And during the pandemic, it was, you know, that was what our income was so, and people were struggling, they were really struggling. But the hard part was, so was I, you know, and I think, you know, there’s a lack of resources. But I think the lack of resources behind the scenes that a lot of therapists and psychologists aren’t talking about, is we were also burnt out, we were hearing so many hard things as we were going through the hard things. And again, it just kept piling and piling. So when I started in February, actually of 2023, I said, this is going to be my year. I am not doing this crap anymore. No one’s going to change this for me. And at the height of making good money with my private practice. I said, this isn’t fueling my soul. I was put here to do something bigger. And I am not going to go out of this world without writing my book, having my podcast comeback and reaching more women. And what I did was I said I have to fast track this because I’m 50 so I have to get my game going. So I reached out and really got focused and I said, I want to work with the women who are in the circles I want to be in. So I heard Chris Carr’s mastermind, I got accepted. It’s amazing. And then you came out with your mastermind. And I said, I love Karen, I’ve worked with her for years, I’m doing that. So I have really put a lot of my energy into being in these two mastermind groups, learning from the people that I want to be like, and getting in those circles with women who are doing what I want to do. And what I found out is it’s not only business that I’m learning, it’s how to be a better woman. So it’s up leveled, my game is a person, like I’m no willing, I’m no longer willing to tolerate, you know, women who don’t want to do better for themselves who don’t want more like, it’s just changed me as a person in the last year.

Karen Yankovich 10:52
Oh, my gosh, I love that, well, that’s a big part of why I do what I do. That’s why I do this show, I want more women to understand that there’s support out there for them. Right. And, and it does come down to who you surround yourself with. And, you know, I find, you know, it’s interesting, because I do believe in my heart of hearts, it doesn’t mean you have to let go of the other people in your life. But I do find sometimes that that’s what happens. You know, like, there’s people that you’re just like, ah, you know, I just can’t listen to that anymore. I can’t listen to that, like, I can’t do the whining or whatever, take control and do something or don’t, and don’t whine. Right. So it’s just interesting. But, you know, you talked a little bit about, like, the importance of surrounding yourself with people and doing and how it impacts you personally, you know, I have a mentor that I that I’ve done a lot of work with, and she reached out to me recently with this thing, she’s got going coming up and, and I was looking at it, and I’m like, is this serving me personally or business wise? And she’s like, it definitely. You know, obviously, Karen, if it serves you personally, it also serves your business, right. But what’s really interesting about that was I kind of stepped into the place of Okay, what if this just what am I invested in this just purely to serve me personally? And I was like, Wow, that feels. And then I was like, I don’t even know that feeling. I don’t even know that I have now, it has been so long since I’ve invested in something that just supports me personally, that I did not recognize the feeling. What is like, I don’t even know how I feel. Yeah. So. So I kind of said, Okay, well, there’s your message from the universe, Karen. And so I said to her, we’re gonna keep clear boundaries around this. This is just for me personally, you know, even though I said, if there’s anything we need to talk about business wise, we’ll make that a separate engagement, you know, but it was just so interesting to me, that I didn’t know what it felt like, yeah, I didn’t, I couldn’t recognize the feeling of like supporting myself and I support so many other people.

I just wanted to take a quick break. And just remind you that the program that Cynthia took, that made her eligible to be a part of our choosing DAP society scale up mastermind, was our choosing DAP accelerator program. And that’s the 12 week program that is open to women who are really looking to step into whatever the next chapter looks like for them in a really competent, powerful way. We love supporting women, to help them have more impact, more influence and more income, I want there to be more wealthy women in the world. And it just absolutely warms my heart when I get to have conversations like this with with students that I’ve worked with that are just changing the world. And, you know, I’m just so grateful that I get to work with these beautiful, amazing women. And, you know, maybe that’s on the horizon for you, what do you think if you are looking to step into the next chapter of your life and your business in a new way, maybe that’s just higher income level. Or maybe you’re shifting something, maybe you’re changing from corporate to entrepreneurism, or maybe you’re shifting something serious in your business, I am here to support you with that. Honestly, we got to stop thinking we could do all this stuff by ourselves and get some help. That helps starts with a short phone call. Grab a spot on the calendar at Karen yankovich.com/call. We’ll get a chance to brainstorm a little bit we’ll talk a little bit about what’s going on in your world and in your business. And if we think that’s something we can help you with, we will give you some great tips and advice. If it’s something that we think we can help you with as you move into your next chapter, we’ll show you what that looks like. But either way, we are just here to support you. And I want this to be a really valuable call starts with Karen yankovich.com/call. And I look forward to seeing your name on.

So that’s why I love the work that you do. So tell us a little bit about Well, first of all, tell us about Mama’s shrink podcast.

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 14:33
Okay, so the mamas shrink podcast came out back in 2018 Completely had to shut it down when COVID hit. But now I really you know, I’m starting to have guests for a while it was more solo episodes, but I talk about all the things that I’ve learned in my 25 years of you know, being a therapist and a psychologist of you know, setting boundaries becoming more assertive how to parent, you know do’s and don’ts, like I’ve have my kids around, you know, I just did an episode with my oldest son, my little guys episodes coming out this week. I’m trying to, like, make this so women can get in there, listen to an episode and come out with something they can use to better their life. So whether that be, you know, just relating to the struggle it is to be a woman in this world or, you know, being a mom in this world. I’ve had some of my clients who aren’t moms listen to the podcast, and they’re like, Oh, I listened to that thing you said about boundaries. That was great. And I’m like, great, you know, you don’t have to be a mom. But it’s, it’s for moms.

Karen Yankovich 15:39
Right? Because yeah, because you’re bound. You’re just juggling so many balls, right?

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 15:42
Yeah. Yeah, there’s so many topics. I mean, like you’re, when you’re in psychology, you can talk about anything

Karen Yankovich 15:48
I bet, I bet, met my daughter, my daughter is in a situation now where her husband just went back to just a new job. And he’s out of he’s in the office five days a week. And they had both worked from home for years. And she’s, you know, a two and a half year old and a four month old. And she was like, Oh my gosh, she’s like, I don’t know, how, how did you do it? How do people do? And I go, I don’t know. But I remember being you know, having little kids and having sign in my office that said, TGIM thank God, it’s Monday, you know, because it was crazy to try and do and at the time I was going in, it was crazy to try to do everything on your home. Right? I can’t even imagine adding and I load.

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 16:22
My boys are always like, Why do you like Monday so much? I love Monday is my favorite day.

Karen Yankovich 16:28
Right? Oh, my gosh, it was crazy. It was crazy. And you know what, and it’s just but listen, I wouldn’t change a thing, right? And she’ll get in that situation. And that’s the thing we want. As women, we want to be there for our families. And we and the beautiful thing about the world we live in right now is we can like it’s I feel like it’s not like the and you’re probably too young to remember this. But it’s not like the I can fry it up in a bacon and serve it up in a pan or something like that. And, like, it’s not that we’re doing everything. Because we need to stop doing everything. But we can craft a business around the life that we want, we can craft a business. You know, like I say all the time, like sometimes people like we just I wouldn’t know what’s important to you, if it’s if it’s important to you to be home at three o’clock, when your kid gets off the bus, we can do that. It’s important for you to take a month in Italy, you know, because that’s where parents live, we can do that. Right? It doesn’t matter what it is, we live in a world now with the tools that we have that allow us to do that. And if we want to do it successfully, right, we have to be very conscious of our own energy.

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 17:28
Yes. Right. Like so important that, you know, I mean, our energy, I think is everything. And I think I make whether you know, clients want to work with us, but also our energy we’re projecting for our kids and the people that we work with. And also I think getting rid of the bad energy, right? Like, I don’t want to surround myself with these people who keep bringing me down. And it takes me two weeks to recover from, you know, spending time with that person. And with the holidays coming up. I’m like, believer, and I was doing this, you know, this might be an interesting fact for your audience, like we spend, you know, so in October, November, December, We’re all worried about the holidays, right? It’s so much stress, then we take January to overcome this stress, that is a quarter of our life every year that we’re spending worried about this nonsense, instead of sending, saying, I’m not spending it with people that I’m only going to see once a year, you know, so those are, you know, things that I’m really passionate about, like, I saw my mom have to struggle being a single mom, and I don’t want that life, you know, and I remember being a little girl saying, I don’t want that. And I’m trying to make other women realize that’s not acceptable. Like, we don’t have to do this anymore. Like we have all these tools. Now let’s use them.

Karen Yankovich 18:45
Right, right. Yeah. Oh my gosh, it’s so important. That’s so important. Okay, so now you have shift. Now you’re shifting into more of a coaching environment. Right. So tell us a little bit about that. And what why you made that choice.

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 19:00
I made that choice. Because, you know, for years, I have focused on, you know, trauma and eating disorders, which I’m very passionate about in Lyme disease, but those topics are really heavy. And as I’m getting older, I just realize, you know, I’ve I’ve been in the trenches with that. I’m not going to forget about any of that, you know, there’s a book in me about that. But I want to work at this point with women who have already, you know, perhaps done their therapy and are ready to play a higher game in life who wants to uplevel their game who really want to do the, you know, I think it’s even harder work to say, Okay, I’m feeling happy, but I want to feel great, like I want to new, right? I want to have boundaries. I want to have you know, people in my inner circle that light me up, I want to look forward to the day I want to do great things in this world. And I want to help them get there you know, and I want moms to believe like you can I don’t think moms can have it all at the same Some time, I really think that’s causing overwhelm. It’s, let’s balance it. So you don’t give yourself up and lose who you are as a person while you’re being a mother. And then when your kids are grown going, Oh my God, my whole life is gone. Like I’ve seen so many women over the years, not know what to do with themselves when their kids leave home. And I want women to be in a place where they’re like, I know exactly what I’m doing when my kids leave home. And I’m because that makes your kids feel good, too, because they don’t want to hear about you.

Karen Yankovich 20:28
Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. Oh, my gosh, that’s so important. That’s so important. So now you have coaching packages, and you work with women, primarily, one on one, or how in whatever format that you work with them at. And the goal is then to just have more women, like support be like that support that I just said I was didn’t even recognize, right, like be that support for these women that they so rarely have, do you find that, that it’s hard to get women to invest in themselves like that?

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 21:00
I do women feel really, you know, like, hesitant to invest in themselves. And I think the message is, but if we don’t, and I know this, like I’ve invested a lot of money in myself in this past year, you know, joining masterminds, being around more women that are where I want to be, and I don’t regret any of it. You know, after a while you invest in yourself, I think you’re like, Okay, I did that. But oh, so worth it. And I you know, and I hope people who work with me feel that it was worth it. But also, you know, I think you have to say I’m doing this for all the other people in my life. I’m doing it. Because if I’m not in a good place, how am I going to help all these other people be in a good place? You know, and it ripples over whether you have, whether it’s your children, whether it’s your partner, like whoever it is, like if you’re not well, no one’s gonna?

Karen Yankovich 21:49
Well, right. Right. It’s so true. It’s so true. You know, it’s interesting, I spoke to a woman this past week about joining our niche, our upfront program, she’s in the accelerator program. And she just technical, she just, she just couldn’t make the commitment. She just couldn’t make the commitment to spend the morning on herself over her family. And then she said, I can’t, I don’t want it was like really heartbreaking to me. She said, You know, I can’t do it. I just can’t do it right now. I can’t do that to my family. But thank you so much for believing in me. And I was like, it broke my heart. Like, of course, I can’t give people you know, I have to I can’t I have to be in integrity with people that paid for the program. I can’t say no, nevermind, I’m gonna do this anyway. But I so wanted to do that. Yeah, I just like felt like, it’s of all the people that need that. It’s somebody like that, right? Because we are so often just, I don’t know, it breaks my heart a little bit. But you know what, that’s why I do my, that’s why I do this show. That’s why you do your show, right? So that they’ve got lots of resources to to pull from while they’re building. And if you recognize yourself from that, know, just know that I’m still supporting you. But you know, it’s, it’s, it’s and that’s what we have, that’s what I have our free I have even my free Facebook group, or, you know, if you go to LinkedIn, for my community.com, we have the free Facebook group, we’re going to be doing actually right after this comes out. Yeah. So this, this is going to be going live early November. And then the a couple days after this comes out, we’re going to be doing like a live. I don’t know, we haven’t decided a name for it yet. But it’s going to be like a party, like a business planning party in the free Facebook group, you know, because I do think that the more we serve, the more it serves our business as well. As you know, like you said earlier, when you take care of yourself, and you just keep showing up is good for everybody around you. Right. And I think that that speaks to my business as well. So

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 23:35
That’s one of the things I want to do is make like a mom mastermind, you know, so it’s kind of like you are nourishing your own soul with other women doing Yeah, I love. So what’s up for you in the upcoming year. I’m working on my book proposal, which is exciting. And it keeps kind of switching to, you know, before it was going to be more on like parenting in your, you know, fifth 40s. And I’m like, well, now I’m 51. So it might be more about turning 50. And all the properties with teenagers, right? Is a big year, but it can be a beautiful year I’m finding, especially when you really focus on you know, time is limited. And the more we get in touch with that, the more we’re going to up our game. I plan on starting, you know, groups for women, and doing less one on one work. So if people want to work with me one on one now would be the time because I don’t know how long I’m going to do that. Because I’ve done that my whole life. Yeah. And I think working still, I’m managing my own burnout, right, like because there’s so many things that we can get our hands in. You know, I’m a course junkie. And I’m like, no, no, no more courses. You’re just doing masterminds and focusing on doing what you want to do, because that causes overwhelm and I don’t want to be in

Karen Yankovich 24:51
oh my gosh, you’re so right. You’re so right. And it’s it’s I agree and I think a lot of people are starting to feel that way or at least I hope more people are starting to feel that way. You know we need need support more than we need another? Like, I don’t know, if you guys probably have seen my background, I do 1000 videos, but I have a million books, if books and courses were the answer, you know, there wouldn’t be a million a billion dollar industry and self help books, right? Like, if books and courses helped. that would that would not be a billion dollar industry. And it doesn’t mean that they don’t help. It just means it’s not the it’s not the we need more. We have more than that. And and it’s there, it’s so it’s there for us. You know, we’re so easy. It’s we’re so quick to spend money on you know, buying our kids and new $200 lacrosse stick, right, you know,

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 25:35
Or a $300 bat I found out I mean? Right. And that’s such a good point, Karen, because I, you know, sometimes feel bad asking people to pay for my services, especially since I took insurance for so many years. However, I think about things like that. And, you know, I think women need to pay for is a better version of themselves, like your kids need a better mom more than they need a new bat. You know, they think, Oh, my God functions like in his happy, right? It’s so true. It’s so true. Alright, so people can get started with you with this free assessment that you have. Right? So tell us about that. Tell us about your quiz. So I created this quiz. And actually, when I was creating it, I came up with this three stage model that’s similar to physical burns. Because as I was creating it, I realized like, oh, yeah, I went from first degree burnout, to second degree burnout, to third degree burnout. And when you’re reaching third degree burnout, like you need help, like you really do, and I’ve been through all the stages. So if you go on over to Mamaburnout.com, you can take that assessment, it will give you a printout and no Gil, like, you know, I say I’ve been through all the stages, because I think moms are scared to even look at it. But we can’t, we can’t change what we don’t acknowledge. So that’s why I created this. It’s it’s 20 questions, it’ll tell you like, are you You know, just dabbling in burnout? Or are you like, beyond, you know, stage three, and you know, Code Red, like, you know, we need to really look at it until we can fix it. And once you know, okay, knowledge is power. And so that’s why I created that.

Karen Yankovich 27:16
Awesome, awesome. So if they just go to we’ll put the links in the show notes too. But if we just go to Mamaburnout.com, we’ll get right to the quiz. And that’s a way to just get started understanding a little bit about, you know, things that you might not have thought of right. And then of course, we’ll have all the links to all of your things, your Instagram, your podcast, and all the things in the show notes here. Honestly, this has been great. This has been great. It’s been really fun to reconnect with you, Dr. Hog does Cynthia. I told her to call you Dr. Harper. But Cynthia has, but you have you earned that. So I want to make sure you know me I’m like you earn I paid to do you work too hard for that doctor. But it’s been fun to have you back in our lives today. And I work together a bunch of years ago. And like she said earlier, she’s in our in our she’s linked up scale at society mastermind now. So it’s been fun to kind of jump back into all of this with you. And I just I love. I love what you’re doing for the world. So thank you so much for doing what you do,

Dr. Cynthia Hawver 28:09
Thank you, Karen, and thank you for doing what you do. And I’m thank you for being a great mentor. Because you’ve you’ve helped me up my game, for sure.

Karen Yankovich 28:15
It’s my that’s my hope. Awesome. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed getting a chance to chat with Cynthia, I hope you enjoyed it as well, you absolutely need to take take some time to do her quiz. And you know, if you loved this episode, then I would love for you to take a quick screenshot of this, share it on your social media, tag me tag, Cynthia, and we will be sure to share it with our audiences. And that’s how you get more visibility as well. We are here to pay it forward. Right? Love your reviews. If you are again, feeling it. A review on Apple podcasts or wherever you’re listening to the show is always valuable to us because it helps me understand what episodes really resonate with you. Right? We’ve got a link to speak pipe in the show notes where you can leave an audio message to me I respond to every single one of those personally. So I’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode. Hopefully you’re connecting with Dr. Hover on all across all of her social media. And just go to Karen yankovich.com/ 259. And you’ll see all the links that we talked about here today. So remember that if you’re looking for some support with this, it just starts with a complimentary call. Karen yankovich.com/call gets you to that calendar. I’d love to see your name on that calendar. I have my favorite calls are the ones that come from our podcast listeners because I know they get it I know that they understand the strategies that we teach and what we’re what we’re all about. So those are the people that we can I feel like we can help the most. So I’d love to see your name on that calendar. I am here to support you and I’ll be back here next week with another episode See you then