243 – Heather Noggle says Don’t Wait for Disaster: Proactive Measures for Cybersecurity Preparedness

Karen Yankovich 0:00
You’re listening to the good girls get rich podcast episode 243

Intro 0:05
Welcome to the good girls get rich podcast with your host, Karen Yankovich. This is where we embrace how good you are girl, stop being the best kept secret in town, learn how to use simple LinkedIn and social media strategies and make the big bucks.

Karen Yankovich 0:23
Hello there. I’m your host, Karen Yankovich. And this is episode 243 of the good girls get rich podcast. And I love today’s show. Today’s guest was one of my clients and we work together to help her make the transition from our full time opportunity to more of a consultative opportunity and, and be really stepping into it and a big role. So I love that I get a chance to tell the stories of some of the brilliant woman I’ve gotten, I’m so honored to be able to work with and her topic is something we all need to hear more about. And that’s cybersecurity. And this is like listen, you’re gonna hear in this episode, some of the things that I messed up and had to undo and redo and fix and whatever. So you definitely want to learn from my mistakes and learn from Heather’s tips so that you can step into your role as the CEO of your life and business confidently and knowing that your data secure and that of your clients, right, we want to make sure that not only is our data secure, but that the data that our clients trust us with is secure. So listen in, you’re going to love Heather Nago. I am so excited to be here today with Heather novel, and Heather is the owner of CODA stack, a process solutions company that interweaves technology and human experience to find unique answers to each customer’s most vexing problems in the area of software, data integration and cybersecurity. Heather offers 25 years of expertise, including experience in software technology, human resources, culture building, writing, and music theory education, and she effortlessly connects all of these things together with engaging and humorous storytelling. Heather, I’m so excited to have you here today.

Heather Noggle 1:55
Oh, thanks. I’m excited, too. Glad to be here.

Karen Yankovich 1:58
Yeah. So when Heather and I met a few months ago, Heather was like Lee like shifting her life really, right, like really going into the work he’s doing now on a full time basis. And, you know, I know we talk a lot here on the show about like, your personal brand, and LinkedIn and PR and stuff, you know, sending into your power. And at the same time, if there’s, if there’s a topic that I think you need to know about, I’m gonna bring it to you, especially if it’s somebody that whose work I really trust and admire. And that’s Heather. And so a few weeks ago, and I’ll share it in the show notes. I interviewed Denise Pena, around digital accessibility and, you know, with the same kind of thought process, and that’s really why I wanted to have Heather here, because I think that as small business owners, we have websites, because we think we need them, and we probably do need them. But we don’t always really know what, you know, what we should be doing with them. And we’re, you know, not only what are the benefits of it, but what are the risks? And what do we need to do to really, you know, make sure that we’re showing up as true CEOs of our business and Heather’s focus on cybersecurity. I thought it was a really important conversation. So Tom, tell us a little bit further about what, like, what brought you to what you’re doing now and why you’re so why it’s so important to you to get the message out about this.

Heather Noggle 3:12
Oh, sure. I’ve been in tech a really, really long time. And it’s always been a mix of tech and people like almost 5050, and how people interact with their technology and how data interacts with other data without getting too geeky into it. It always hinges on how people use that data. And obviously, how to secure it, the internet when it was built and made popular. And when we as people started using it, at some point in the 90s, it was all about disseminating information, getting it from point A to point B and it wasn’t so much about keeping it secure. And so that’s always been a challenge as we evolve and put more of our more of our lives and more of our data online as well. How do we secure that? And are we even paying attention to that? Well, now even people with super small businesses can have an online presence can have a personal brand. And that’s worth protecting. And often they work with customers whose data they have access to as well. So that in addition might have some other things to look at securing and protecting. And that’s always been of interest to me. And so I decided to shift my career to focus on that with the expertise that I’ve got.

Karen Yankovich 4:19
I love that. And you know, when I first started taking credit cards over the phone and things like that, it didn’t even occur to me, like as a user as a, as a client or an end user, right? Or a consumer. I wouldn’t really think twice about giving spending my credit card, but when I started taking credit cards, all of a sudden, I was like, Okay, there’s a responsibility here because frankly, I could write their number down on a piece of paper. I could throw that piece of paper in my garbage can and the garbage man can pick it up and you know, I mean not to mention whatever all a million other things that could happen with that right. So it was really interesting. You know, so I kind of I kind of went down the rabbit hole a little bit of like, well what is my what is my responsibly what is the best way to do this? You know from a from a an effectiveness standpoint. Right? I liked writing it down first so that if I just typed it in and I did it wrong, then you know, I could have just transposed digits, and I wouldn’t know that right? But if I wrote it down, then what I do with that piece of paper, right, like, what was it, even if it was electronic, you know, what was I doing with that, because I know like, my system stores it securely. You know, like, when I type it in, it stores it if you, you know, if you, if you enjoy, if you buy something from us, or invest in something from us, I can just, if you if you want something else, and you can send me just rebuild the cardboard you have on file, and I don’t know what the number is, and doesn’t matter. My system secures that, but somehow that number had to get there, right. So I think like that was when I first started thinking like, what the heck, like I never realized how not secure it was when I was doing a lot of this work.

Heather Noggle 5:44
I think that’s common, and that we do our work. And our work is our focus, because our work is what makes us money and what gives us passion and meaning to our lives. But our work still exists in the greater world. And it’s a your private information is valuable to someone else. And small businesses and super small businesses and nonprofits are pretty easily targeted, because they don’t put the time and attention to the details of securing this because it isn’t the primacy of what they’re doing their businesses. And without the awareness of power, things have changed in the last 20 years to have enough focus to see cybersecurity as a business risk or a business concern that can multiply your business against someone else’s, I think that there’s something missing. And so that’s really what I’m hoping to bring to light and the work that I’m doing.

Karen Yankovich 6:34
I definitely want to get into how we can do some of this stuff. But sure, I think I think it’s important. Before we even do that to just kind of like, like I would say that my my background and expertise, I had a lot of a lot of work in the IT world as well. And I have backups to my backups, my backups, right? Like, you know, like, I’ve got all that stuff I use, you know, password generators, although after working with you whether I use them or I use them more consistently than I did before, you know, and I also get those messages that are like your password might be compromised. And I’m like, yeah, yeah. Like, what are they? What do I care? Like, what is it? What are they gonna get? If they can get into my Macy’s account? They’re gonna buy shoes, like what? You know, like, so I don’t really pay enough attention, but I don’t. But that’s as a consumer, right? Yes, as a consumer, as a business owner, I need to pay attention to this stuff. And by the way, if you guys are listening to me that that are looking to join my program or have joined my program, I am much more secure. Now I do write your credit card numbers down, but I shred them. And then I didn’t like my Shredder, because I didn’t think it shredded it enough. So I bought a shredder that cross threaded thread things so that it was worth sometimes I even rip it in half and shred half one day and half another day. You know, because because it is important to me that that you know that I am doing everything I can to protect, you know, my protect what’s in my hands to protect, right? So so what can we do? What should we be doing as business owners that that is easy to implement right away.

Heather Noggle 8:00
And the really easy to implement right away is to take a look at your two hands. And on one hand you have what you do as people what we’re doing, like you said with a password manager, multi factor authentication, where you’re using an app like Authy, or duo, Google Authenticator, Microsoft authenticator, in addition to your username and poor people, if they do get your credentials to actually get into the accounts, these are small, really effective changes, that if those become just part of your business culture of this is how we do business, they significantly protect you. So that’s the one hand is the people and their behaviors. The other hand is the very core basics of what you have to do with computers and making sure that you know what devices and computers that you have, and when they are patched. So with those very simple changes and the backups that you mentioned, Karen and making sure you’ve got different ways of backing up your data, then if the business will start there, with the combination of what people are doing in their behaviors and their culture and the way they do their daily practices with those small changes with the multifactor authentication, unique passwords, I should talk about that, that each password to every site should be unique. And that’s why we use those password manager because it’s impossible to do otherwise. And then the other hand, the technology and making sure we understand what devices we have and securing them, then a business will be significantly further ahead than its competitors who are not making these considerations. Because implementing these practices means that if an attacker is focused on you will probably go elsewhere to something that’s easier.

Karen Yankovich 9:36
Interesting. So I use LastPass is a password, you know, creator or whatever. And I am trying to get better about doing that LastPass everywhere. Although there’s still I definitely still find places that I’m not using. I still use my like cheesy old passwords. But you know, interestingly enough, I felt like I had this fairly unique password and then one day, my daughter in law was here and she was trying to do something I’m like, just use this password and she sort of just I use that same password. all the time, and my other daughter in law jumped in and said, so do I. I was like, what, like three people in one room and it was not like generic to my family, you know, it was. So it made me it was an eye opener to me, you know, to and I kind of laughed it off at the time and said, Okay, well now you can shop, you know, you can shop at any of the places I want you to how to get into my accounts and shop and you know, Bill Me for all your stuff. But it was really an eye opener to me for that. But here’s the thing, it does take a little bit more, it takes more effort, which is not a big deal. Because once you have it set up, it doesn’t take that much more effort. But the place where where I find challenge with this, which I was just like, Oh, I just want to take get rid of it is when we’re using the password authenticator like Authy. Because like, for example, I and I do this, I use it, I use two step authentication almost everywhere I can. But I also have a team, right, but it wasn’t on the team. So like, sometimes it’ll be 10 o’clock at night. And I’ll get a Slack message from somebody going, I’m trying to get into GoDaddy to make some changes to the website, what can you check your text messages for password? Do you don’t I mean, so like, how do we get around those kinds of things? Sure.

Heather Noggle 11:01
So your password managers, most of them, I use one password, you’ve mentioned LastPass, they will have the ability to share a password. So you get the password piece taken care of with them. If you can have a separate user, that’s better. But yes, there are definitely hassles with all security that we add. There’s seems to be a continuum between ease of use and security, you can lock something down and make it so secure. Nobody could ever use it. Or you could make it so easy to get into that everybody could use it instantly. And immediately. There’s always some give and take there. Multiple users is helpful in the household with a password manager, you can you can share but in a business that gets a little bit more difficult. With things like that. I know that on some financial accounts, they’ll let you have multiple ways to get into the same account because understanding that problem. I think over time that websites will get better about that. But it is something you have to navigate and call it a hassle. And every time you use you’re doing what you’re doing Oh, you’re Authy your google authenticator, Microsoft authenticator, and you think I’m doing something to stop people from hacking me and you can feel a little bit of pleasure to it, which kind of take some of the pain off it.

Karen Yankovich 12:09
And I have been packed. So I have felt the pain. My Facebook ad account was hacked a bunch of years ago. And, and I it’s 100% my fault, because I did not have two step authentication on Facebook, you know, and so 100% my fault. And now I have to support litigation on everything. But there are things like there was an Instagram tool I wanted to use at one point, and I didn’t I could use it as if I remove two step authentication. I’m like, yeah, no, can’t do that. You know, like so. So, as business owners, we do have to make some choices, I think around that. And I’m trying to err on the side of being cautious with the security. But talk to us a little bit about from the standpoint of our clients, right? So that’s so yeah, we want to keep our website secure. And I get I get it, if somebody can hack into my website, they can possibly hack into my client information as well. But what should we be doing to end to help our clients feel confident with their information on our that we that we have of theirs?

Heather Noggle 13:07
It’s these steps to begin with and assessing. It’s often called an assessment once you get into the technical side of it. So I’ll apply it to the personal side as well of the security for your business, making sure that you are regularly checking Are we where we need to be Are there any compliance governmental standards that might apply to us like with credit cards, if we are holding credit card information, there’s the payment card industry or PCI standard to take a look at. So if your nephew set up your network, because you’re a super small business, you might need to go to someone else to take a look at helping you manage the devices that you own once you’ve identified them. And you may need to even help in doing so with that.

Karen Yankovich 13:47
So real quick, as I mentioned, as I introduced this episode, Heather is a graduate of my shakeup accelerator program. It’s a 12 week program that takes you from wherever you are now to wherever you want to be with a plan of action with a plan to help you have the income that you need to be able to fund and do all the amazing things you want to be able to do with this new next chapter of your life. We work hard with you to really help you understand that you can flip the funnel look for the biggest highest ticket opportunities in your world first, and then we work with you step by step futilely into contract one of those opportunities. We focus on PR as well. We help you get podcast interviews and you’ll hear other talks about the fact that she’s been on podcasts and you know all of these things together help create a brand for you. That has you really as identity shifting is truly identity shifting your show you’re showing up as the CEO of your life and business and that is that mindset is what we need to be focusing on to achieve it and do want to be able to achieve so if you want to know what it looks like to be a part of our she’s linked up community would love to chat with you just go to Karen yankovich.com/call Grab spot on the calendar. These calls are so valuable, I love to do them, my team has to do them. And we spend some time chatting with you about how you can be building a strategy like this for yourself. If we think it’s something we can help you with, we’ll tell you what that looks like. Either way, you’re gonna get an amazing value from these calls, we want these calls to be hugely valuable for you. So if you listen to this podcast before you have not booked one of these calls, why the heck, not? Karen yankovich.com/call, I hope to see you on the calendar.

Heather Noggle 15:31
Depending on your business’s size, you may also have your own networks to deal with. Or you may have everything out on what we call the cloud. So Google or Microsoft and things like that you have to take into consideration if you’re growing rapidly, that’s its own risk. And you may need to assess more frequently. So there are firms out here who do this work. And there are firms who work with different industries, different sizes of customers, and etc. keeping abreast of what’s happening, putting in your first layer. And it’s like that video games Super Mario Brothers, you get it, you complete the level and then you get to the castle and the princess isn’t there anymore. And there’s a thing sorry, Mario, the princess is in another castle. And so you have to play the next level. And then next level is harder. So you’re never going to

Karen Yankovich 16:15
see what happens when you have data geeks on on our podcast, by the way, no, that’s okay. I love it. I love it, I have very similar explanations for things.

Heather Noggle 16:23
It’s just the Gen X thing for me, you know, growing up video games, but you do it does get a little bit harder, and you’re never going to be fully secure. But the the path and the journey is worth it because of the due diligence you’re doing for your customers and also for your staff and yourself is looking into where you are where you need to be and getting there. As part of recognizing that in the year 2023. And beyond this is part of business risk.

Karen Yankovich 16:53
Yeah, yeah. And you know, a lot of these lessons I learned the hard way. But here, thankfully, you’re here to help us not have to learn the hard way. I mean, I, I lost a harddrive one time years ago, and on a laptop, and now every single thing that gets saved and downloaded and everything gets immediately back, like it defaults to Dropbox to a dropbox folder, you know, so that there’s almost nothing on a hard drive that is, you know, irreplaceable, you know, so you know, I learned those things the hard way. And I do have an awful lot of trust in Dropbox. So hopefully they’re doing their part to be secure. And Google Drive, right. Okay, so So how do you work with people? How do you help people with these kinds of solutions and assessments? Okay,

Heather Noggle 17:34
very first thing, I have a series of videos that are on YouTube and linked from my website. And so those are free, they talk about passwords, password managers, backups, anti malware, software, anti virus, and many things like that. So those are accessible, they’re quick, they’re easy, I think it’s under 50 minutes of content that somebody can take a look at, to just get started and understanding what you need to know. And then people like me, we have partners, depending on whatever your needs are the initial assessment, the gaps between that initial assessment where you need to be both from a compliance perspective and where you want to be from where your tolerance is for business risk. So that’s part of the assessment is determining what that is for each individual business. And then finding the right series of partners to serve that organization, that customer so that each business can feel secure in how it works with its customers, knowing that it’s going to be a hassle to get in and probably anybody attacking will move to somebody else. I’m invested interesting

Karen Yankovich 18:36
point that I hadn’t really thought of that, that even if it’s Yeah, yeah, that’s an interesting point that they’re looking for the easy ends, and there’s probably plenty of them, right? So yes, they’ll move on, if they even hit a little bit of a stumbling block. That’s awesome. And, you know, I look at this as like, almost like insurance, right? Like, the last thing you want is to like, think about what it would cost you to recreate something in order to, you know, or to be down and you have your business down for a week or a month as your you know, if you if you truly got packed that bad. So I think it’s something that we that we all need to do. And it doesn’t have to be hard and complicated. That’s why we have people like you out there that can help us, you know, to ease the pain, a little bit of the tech stuff around this and help us get it set up so that we can feel safe and secure. For what you know, at the very least what we’re doing for our clients, but also in the you know, in running our businesses.

Heather Noggle 19:31
Yeah, I’m gonna jump a little bit into that next castle. So we beat level one, we’re good level two Castle, it’s good to have an idea of what you’re going to do on the day of actually something bad happening. So that you’ve got those plans. There are three of them. You typically look at incident response, which is immediately we’ve noticed something is wrong. What do we do? Who do we call who’s in charge? Who do we need to communicate with? Who’s our lawyer and things like that? So you can build that out and have that at the ready? No? meaning that if you’re doing everything right, there’s maybe you’ll never be. And then there’s the disaster recovery and the business continuity, I like to think of if you’re working in a restaurant, and I was doing that in the 80s, when I was brand new in the workforce, and the registers would go down, well, what do you do that was electronic, you had to figure prices, you had to figure taxes, and you had to serve your customers. And you knew that at some point, maybe an hour later, maybe four hours later, maybe tomorrow, everything would be back up. But you have to carry on with business until it is. And so speaking to what you just said, those are the three things to look at, I would say in level two, when you know what your risk tolerance is, and you have a plan to keep yourself as secure as you can. This is the set of things you need to have. And they have to be printed, so that they’re there in paper form in case you need them to be.

Karen Yankovich 20:46
Yeah, oh my gosh, that’s amazing. That’s also I, you’re taking me back to my tech days of disaster recovery, and more importantly, disaster avoidance, right, like, so. That’s so cool. So before we go, I just wanna hear a little bit about your journey. So we mentioned coming in that you were recently stepped into, well, you’ve been or you were an entrepreneur, even before this, right, I’m gonna stop telling you what to tell about your journey, how was your journey,

Heather Noggle 21:09
my journey is started in, I was gonna be a band director, which is a really funny place to start. And some circumstances in college led me to believe that’s probably not my path, then I ended up with a communications degree. And with a communications degree, you can do anything. It’s like a practical English degree. And I ended up in HR and go into grad school, still not 100%, what I wanted to do, there wasn’t sure, but with HR in early 2000, ish, a little bit before, then there’s so much data, and I fell in love with the data about people, so the people and their data, and not so much securing it at that point, but working with it, and helping people with their benefits, helping people with whatever my boss needed, essentially. And so I got some tech background from there, and some in my childhood. And I ended up doing HR for several years, and then moving into software development, because I had the core skills and the data skills with that. In 2000, I started with a consultancy, and I thought it would be you’d go from a project to project to project three months here, six months there, whatever, I had a three month project and 2000, it extended through 2001 for about six months, and it ended up extending until, well, infinitely, really, I actually owned part of that company now. And I worked for it for 22 years, my client bought out my contract with the consulting agency. And I work for them part time, full time all over the place until I bought it with a colleague in 2018. And we shifted our ownership around who and and I’m, we’re doing a whole bunch of amazing things in there. And I actually do not work for that company anymore. And she’s taking it and doing great things within the export compliance space. So I come from a compliance and a governance and an idea of how to make something work within a framework mindset. Because of those experiences. And all that work in tech and software, working with people and their software requirements, making sure that the things that are on paper, there’s always more to that story. And so working on telling the story of how something needs to be how it came to be where it started, what are we missing? What additional things does it need to do that we haven’t talked about? A lot of the journalistic who, what, where, when, why, how, and then trying to critically think through what else? What else is one of my favorite questions. So that’s a little bit about me.

Karen Yankovich 23:25
Well, what I want to but the part that I want to hear more about the the courage that it took to do all these things, right, so many of us think we get a job and get a paycheck. And then maybe but you know, it took a lot of courage to say, All right, well, you know, maybe we’re gonna bind the company, or maybe we’re gonna, maybe we’re gonna leave the company, and maybe I’m gonna do something else now. Right? So, so what brought you to those decisions? Oh, my

Heather Noggle 23:46
whole life has been terrifying. So the thing that happened in college was cancer after after cancer, you know, you’ve stepped back and I’m 10 years older, and a buyer that’s six months older, but actually probably looks 10 years older, you step back, and you’d say well, okay, what now? And what now is all the things that came after, and the idea that there’s enough support in my life and in my journey that even if it’s not this, it’s something else, and that there’s nothing lost and all the learning that I get to do. So I think that’s it.

Karen Yankovich 24:20
There’s lost and all the learning. That’s so it’s, it’s awesome. Yeah,

Heather Noggle 24:25
there’s a book I’m reading right now called range. And it talks about all the people who work in different spheres of influence and learn in different spheres. So at any point I’m learning about hacking right now I’m digging into the actual technical parts of some of these things that I’ve not yet been exposed to and the work of the software just to get a better understanding and better storytelling stance. I’m also learning French word, which I started in high school. So those two things don’t really go together. I play my trumpet and that’s my musical instrument and play that pretty regularly and a lot of reading a lot of writing and between all that I hope to have a well enough rounded background that I can resonate with people about their businesses, my message is very important working on a book, because you know, not doing enough working on a book in a course, because that’s going to have overwhelming content. And it’s all geared towards this single message of cybersecurity as a business risk, even for super small businesses.

Karen Yankovich 25:18
Well, you know, they say, if you need something done, give it to the busiest woman, you know, right. So I get that. But you know, what I want to also celebrate you for is though, so Heather was is was in our she’s linked up accelerator program. And you were so good, though, at building relationships, you were so good at doing the outreach and getting on the phone with people and just looking for opportunities. And I think that a lot of times, people look at the whole like left brained skill set, and forget that there’s there’s also a right brain skill set to go along with that. And that’s the relationship building stuff, right?

Heather Noggle 25:51
The cybersecurity community has been really welcoming. I have the tech creds, I guess enough that I what I’m learning and doing and resonating, they’ll help me in places I don’t quite have the full technical grasp, because that’s wide and deep. And so I’m not going to have all of the pieces and I don’t have to I need the partners who do and so building those relationships has been very key these last several months. And I’ve built a LinkedIn following just by posting each day gaining that reputation and then reaching out, it’s been really good for me, I know not everybody will need to do that just having a good profile and having the right contacts and the recommendations does a lot. But for me, it’s stepping into a slightly adjacent area, to my main expertise, I’ve needed that and then the support of the people and gaining their trust. And so I think that has been really pivotal to me to take that’s another one of those terrifying steps until it and if you do them enough, they’re not terrifying anymore. That’s another thing about doing something in a routine and a habit. Once you build it, it’s no longer scary. Move on to the next scary thing.

Karen Yankovich 26:54
Oh my gosh, it’s so good. All right, well, Heather, I’m going to drop your LinkedIn profile. And then you are in the show notes as well. Because you all to Heather has a great content on LinkedIn. And you definitely want to be connected there. And and we’re going to reach out if you think that you know, if you if you think that you’re looking to get some more information on how this you know how you can incorporate a better cybersecurity protocol, I guess, into your business in your life or you know, or again, like Heather said, you got a product or terrifying piece of just, you know, getting on the phone until you until you’ve done it enough times that it’s less terrifying. Practice that right? Practice that connect with Heather. And if you think that there’s opportunities, you don’t know where that goes, you have that conversation right? So thank you so much for doing this. Heather. This has been so good. I’m so I love watching you soar and you’ve gotten you’ve given me more things to think about things that I need to start paying more attention to on my my own side here. So thanks for being here with us.

Heather Noggle 27:47
Oh, you’re welcome. I’ve had a great time. Thanks, everybody.

Karen Yankovich 27:50
Oh my gosh, I’m so you know, when I have people like Heather on the show, I just like I kind of want to like, it’s like you want to hang their report cards on your refrigerator, right? Like, I’m so proud of her for the amazing hard work that she did that has her really stepping into this amazing new chapter of her life. And I, you know, I’m grateful for her for the work that she’s doing. Because I think it’s really important. This cybersecurity topic is really important for all of us. But also, you know, I want you to be inspired also by her story. Because she worked hard. She was not afraid to do the outreach he was not afraid to, even though she said she was terrified. By the way, did you hear that? You know, she did it, she did the work. And the more you do it, the less terrifying it is. And the sooner we do it, the sooner you can start you can start to see the rewards of your of your efforts, right. So if you want to know what it looks like to be a part of our shooting dev community, just go to Karen yankovich.com/call, you get a spot on our calendar. And you can hang out with beautiful women like Heather, to really step into the next chapter of your life in a in a really rich way. So if you’ve listened before, or if you love this episode today, you know, I love to hear from you. So please make sure that you’re following this show, wherever you’re listening. I would love your review. If you’re thinking this was you know, whatever you thought of this episode, I’d love to hear it. Of course, I want your five star reviews. And of course, I’d love for you to share this episode on social media use the hashtag good girls get rich, tag me tag, Heather will be sure to share your posts with our audience. And then we can all get more visibility that way. In the notes, there’s a link for SpeakPipe you can leave me an audio message there. I love your audio messages. I get to actually have love to have conference. It’s like I feel like sometimes I’m just looking at you in the show. And SpeakPipe gives you a chance is a chance for us to have an actual conversation, right because I do respond to every one of those messages. So Karen yankovich.com/ 243 is where you’ll see all the things we talked about here. And you’ll see the link for SpeakPipe as well. I am here to support you. Heather and I are both here. We’d love to hear what you think about this show. I do this podcast to support you. I’ve had something really excited to share with you next week. So don’t miss next week’s episode because it is going to we’re going to be sharing something that I have not done before and antsy to get it live and in your hands. So make sure you’re following us and See you back here next week with another episode